Billie vs. David

[rabid1st]

Come on...? Let's not go there.

My recent comment about David annoying me with his comments about the Doctor's mindset in Runaway Bride...prompted someone else to say that Billie had also made annoying comments. Which I'm sure she has. And if one of her annoying comments inspires ranting in you...rant on. I will try to defend Billie...as someone else tried to defend David (and indeed...as I myself defended David) for his remark. I will look for the good behind what she/he said. For example: Billie is feeling pain, regret and loss over her decision to leave Dr. Who...and she knows her fans are feeling the same thing. So, she's going to express those feelings and be quoted.

But I would rather not let one annoying comment escalate into who is more annoying...person A or person B. Especially, when I adore BOTH A & B and they appear to be quite fond of each other. Overall, I think Billie and David are handling this transition amazingly well. Both of them come across as lovely people who care very much about what they do and continue to wish one another the best. But they are at the center of a media blitz and the media has a vested interest in stirring up trouble to sell papers or magazines. As fans, we should remember that. Everyone is going to be quoted for the most impact.

This loss of Rose and moving on to Martha isn't about Billie vs. David. Both of them should enjoy the most success they can have as people and actors. I want Billie to be a shining star. I want to watch Dr. Who for David's sake...and Russell's. I want to adore Freema as Martha Jones.

I want a Rose/Ten reunion movie...not just for me but because I think Dr. Who deserves a really good film after all these years and NOW they have something people will pay to see. The time has never been riper to bring a great Dr. Who film into being than right now. Young, appealing stars. A reunion fans will talk about online to start buzz. Spiderman and the X-men leading the way. Dr. Who is the next logical step...and David and Billie are the logical stars.

Every comment I make is designed to get my reasons for watching/not watching OUT THERE...so the people in charge can make informed decisions. Not that I think anyone is remotely interested in my little live journal...but the PTB are aware of the fanbase...and I want to represent. I'm sure everyone who is THRILLED with some new comment will also be expressing themselves (as I just did about Russell's comment...simply because it gave me a reason to go on watching a show I've always enjoyed). My Christmas wish for the New Who fandom is we all represent the best in fandom and that none of us express ourselves via fandom wars.

Rae

Comments

Re: *via wank_report*

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I can see how that might worry and/or bother you. But if people lamenting loss signaled the "death of change" it would be a very slow moving and sad world, indeed. People mourn...it's not that big a deal. No one would ever remarry or leave their job at KFC if a little mourning stopped the world. But it is a little early for a mature person to expect that everyone will go forward happily into the future, too.

Of course, another way of looking at it...as I've said is that the people who so vehemently dislike RTD insisting the Doctor loved Rose are often saying "I liked the OLD SCHOOL Doctor who never had a romance, best." They fear change and embrace stasis, too. They think that having had a love and losing her is more than their vision of the Doctor can bear. Or that admitting RTD is saying something quite different than what they want him to say is somehow going to change the show in a way they can't relate to any longer.

Personally, I embrace both changes...and I want to find a way to incorporate the sadness I feel at losing Rose into an enjoyment of the show as it goes on. I think a lot of people feel as I do...the question is will they go on watching the show or not. All interested parties...I would imagine, even those who hated Rose Tyler hope the show doesn't lose ratings points over this.

Rae

Re: *via wank_report*

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

It's gotta be due for a ratings-slump at some point, and third season seems like a likely time, especially after Doomsday gave a bit of an impression of being the end of the whole thing (which is why I think the Bride's appearance was a thing of genius). People jumping fandom at this point is totally understandable. Why stay if your object of interest is gone? I gave up on Stargate when Jack left, would probably have abandoned the EDAs if Fitz had been written out and lost a lot of interest post-Anji. I reckon it's one of the beauties of DW, that we can love one bit, hate another, and be indifferent about another bit of it.

But fannishly I think I've got on board with love and romance now, and what throws me a bit is when people who are totally with the love angle seem to be demanding that this now cease. What I honestly get from the canon is that the Doctor falls in love fast and hard and easy, to the point where it'd be weird if he didn't get a bit of flirting and over-attachment to Martha and probably even that bride woman. (Not that canon's all-powerful in fandom, since canonically the Doctor's half-human and almost no one embraces that one. Which is fine and good and I acknowledge my weirdness on that one.)

The One True Love Model I really can't relate to in the same way, because it's incredibly reductive and the Doctor as I know him needs a bit more than Rose to be happy. My Doctor needs the TARDIS and Someone, Anyone, Someone. He's half-human and he needs to be loved, as Morrissey almost sang. Is totally why I was a lot happier with the shipping at School Reunion/GitF, since they gave us some context and truly turned the romance angle into expansion rather than reduction. And I do hate feeling like Ten and Rose didn't give a damn about Jack and Mickey. :(

I hope Martha's a clog-dancing ninja pirate. But I know that this is Very Unlikely. Woe.

Well, I admit...I am old school on some points

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I suppose I would rather not get so attached to the companions myself. But I totally agree with you about the Doctor falling instantly in love with companions...with bystanders...with ideas...etc. But Sarah Jane, Reinette, Jack and Harriet Jones show us how quickly he can cast people off, too. I think it is important to have one person be different...because...it gives him more depth as a heroic figure.

But fannishly I think I've got on board with love and romance now, and what throws me a bit is when people who are totally with the love angle seem to be demanding that this now cease. What I honestly get from the canon is that the Doctor falls in love fast and hard and easy, to the point where it'd be weird if he didn't get a bit of flirting and over-attachment to Martha and probably even that bride woman.

Like you I know that the Doctor does need more than Rose to be happy. But that doesn't always translate to love interest. I think actually EVERYONE needs more than their other half to be happy. But I also know that unlike the rest of us mere mortals...the Doctor has had a chance to experience a lot of life...and loving someone deeply is part of life. Jackie tells Pete...there was never anyone else...and Mickey smirks (because :snort: ) but the Doctor, cuts his eyes toward Rose. That's what I'm talking about here...not an end to the fun or flirtation but an acknoweldgement that there can be many and still only one. And I am completely with you on School Reunion and GitF showing us (and Rose) that the Doctor can love several people at the same time...and be swept up in giddy infatuations, too. As we see in The Impossible Planet, Rose begins to truly celebrate his love of everyone. But I think, RTD is seeing something else: At his core the Doctor has always been alone. Which is what the basic storyline was telling us...not because of the loss of his people...but because of who he is. He's not like the other Time Lords. And he needs someone with him...someone to hold his hand. He always has had that...but it never changed his being ALONE.

And I don't think it will now, either. The point you make about Rose and Ten going happily on not giving a damn about Jack or Mickey...speaks right to what I'm saying. One of the reasons, I think, that people didn't like Rose as much in S2...is because Rose really is suited to the Doctor. She completes him, as RTD says. And...as Jackie says...that's a scary thing in a human. Rose was in AoG (I would say in T&C) well on her way to being "not even human." Well on her way to completing the Doctor. And I think she got there in Doomsday when she stares him down after coming back. She's not being childish...she's being him and he can't argue with it even if it makes him angry.

I am sure you are familiar with the Odyssey...and maybe you, like me, thought he should have stayed on the sea instead of returning to that drip Penelope...but the thing is...the Greek idea of "like-mindedness" is played out in their devotion to each other. And I think that is the model RTD may be going for in Doctor Who. That Rose and the Doctor have a certain homophrosyne that unites them across the void but doesn't stop them from living fulfilled lives and going on with their respective missions.

Ask yourself, is it really so bad to believe that after 20 years of service (and kick-ass alien stomping) the Doctor might have a home somewhere? Seems kind of...petty to deny him rest...forever. Forever is the word Rose uses to get that smile out of him and you will note, he can't bring himself to use it about her stay in Pete's World. I think it is petty to deny him a person who truly completes him and a place he could stay forever when we know he's mentioned the restful life as one "he can never have." He always says it wistfully rather than as if he finds it appalling. Life with Rose may not seem like paradise to everyone...but there is a good bit of evidence it looked like paradise to the Doctor.

Rae

Re: Well, I admit...I am old school on some points

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

But Sarah Jane, Reinette, Jack and Harriet Jones show us how quickly he can cast people off, too. I think it is important to have one person be different...because...it gives him more depth as a heroic figure.

But to me it's a shallowness. It kills his empathy, his depth of feeling. It reduces him to being about Rose, kills a lot of potential for his future. At least, it does for me. I don't want a Doctor who can't care. Because what's the point of him then? It means his story is over, which is a bit depressing, innit? And that's not even getting into what it means to the viewer, who in that scenario has just been told that they might as well stop watching because romance is no longer on the menu even after it worked for two seasons.

Jackie tells Pete...there was never anyone else...and Mickey smirks (because :snort: ) but the Doctor, cuts his eyes toward Rose.

I took that as cos she too knows it's a big lie Jackie's telling. He knows Jackie's ways, omg!

At his core the Doctor has always been alone.

Totally. That this remains a constant theme even with Rose right there shows how deeps it's meant to go, as does that stuff about his Lonely Emo Childhood. If he's not unique he does lose something and I even agree with the idea that this was a bit of a problem back when Romana was in the TARDIS, different as she was from our title character.

One of the reasons, I think, that people didn't like Rose as much in S2...is because Rose really is suited to the Doctor. She completes him, as RTD says.

Ah, but to me she doesn't. She really doesn't. She's not that good a match to me, which is a large part of why Rose as One True Eternal Love seems wee bit a insane to me. He's been completed by people before since that's half the purpose of a companion, and he was happy enough to ditch her for Reinette. (Which makes me think he's looking for something, but doesn't quite know what it is.) And Rose... doesn't challenge him, doesn't Get It entirely, isn't really there for anything other than the Doctor. As a passing fancy, absolutely, but she doesn't strike me at all as a suitable other half for the Doctor. Also I think I have £5 somewhere on RTD coming out with the same line for Martha. Because it seems very likely.

Ask yourself, is it really so bad to believe that after 20 years of service (and kick-ass alien stomping) the Doctor might have a home somewhere?

Maybe he does, but Rose don't seem like she's it. Honestly what I get from it. On the other hand, is it so hard to believe that he should get to live and love (and, sadly, lose) again? That 'verse has no shortage of smart, attractive, compassionate women, and goodness knows the Doctor's shown an interest in enough of them. Just as long as they don't ask for any sort of commitement whatsoever he's happy.