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So, I don't want to say much above the cut...explore at your own risk...do not share any more than I share with you here.

It has been confirmed that Billie and David will be back for the Anniversary episode. This isn't the great news to me as it might be for many of you. To me, it is just a real canon chance for Moff to destroy the relationship between Rose and the Doctor. The most money is on Ten2/Rose appearing in some way, I believe. This might fit in with my "This is not the Real Doctor" idea. But, my money would be on a flashback type scene, set in this universe...similar to what we have had of Rose already several times...just a brief appearance with little interaction...like the one in End of Time 2.

My writing talents would create a situation where we have a full flashback of Ten/Rose, going about their traveling back in the day, but working on some case we failed to see in the show. Because, as I've mentioned, I would do an episode that simply had several Doctors involved (in their own timelines) on the same case of a mysterious temporal disturbance. Of course, my DREAM scenario is that we explain that Ten did get archived to the Human Ten body when he regenerated. And Moff uses this opportunity to explain how to have more regenerations, by archiving Eleven to the Library computer. But that's just me dreaming of ponies again. Don't let it offer you a glimmer of hope. Moff will most likely screw up the Ten/Rose story.

Honestly, I can't stress this enough...do not dance about just now. It is possible to do Rose and Ten in separate scenes, because Rose was Nine's companion, too. And, also, was hopping in and out of alternative dimensions on her own...something that is sure to appeal to Moff's Timey-Wimey sensibilities. Also, Ten was alone and with other companions for a long time. So...just because we have Billie and David confirmed...we are a long way away from the two of them together. Or anything to please we Ten/Rose fans. I could see them pleasing Ten2/Rose people, before us, but that is hardly a foregone conclusion. Personally, I think if Chris comes back then we will have Rose/Nine and not Rose/Ten at all.

Here's the confirmation article...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21980892

Rae

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-30 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karie22.livejournal.com
I'm hesitant to believe anything this close to April 1st.

If it is true, then obviously I'm TERRIFIED that Moff will screw them up, BUT, my one -probably completely naive- hope that I'm clinging desperately to is this...

Both David and Billie had to agree to come back to do the episode. Would they have done so if the script were horrible? David, especially, always struck me as such a Doctor/Rose shipper.

*Hopes desperately*

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-30 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
David is a tremendous Rose/Doctor shipper, but he let me down with his wholehearted support of JE and EndofTime, so I can't say what I believe about him now. I had been clinging to Billie standing firm, but she recently said that she was happy with how the Doctor and Rose turned out in JE.

Was that backpedaling from Billie...or a clue about "How they EVENTUALLY turn out?" I don't know.

Certainly, Billie doesn't need the work, so, I would think they would need to entice her back with something, either real work with David, or absolute closure. And, as I've said, they have left the door wide open with that TARDIS explosion and the time-meddling that Eleven has done. All of Moff's run could exist in a time-bubble of sorts. But, that is too much like me to be him, so I won't hold out any hope to you. LOL

Rae

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-01 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karie22.livejournal.com
Eh, I'm one of the ones who has made peace with JE. My reason is this: Billie chose to leave the show, and it was always going to go on without her. While it's heartbreaking that the real Doctor had to leave her behind, she was never going to be able to go with him, so it was either she died, she got left behind alone, or she settled for a close imitation. At least this way, she can make a life and have him in a way.

I think my biggest regret, though, is that Ten died alone in the Tardis without anyone to be there for him. :(

I wish Moff would get locked in a time bubble.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-01 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I hate to disagree with you but Billie leaving the show was already dealt with by the alternative dimension and the nature of time running faster there. All they needed to do with JE was have the Doctor join her. The very nature of the show means that he could be...as he said..."back in time for tea" to our universe.

He and Rose could have easily shared a long lifetime together off screen...and been available for future shows and it would have made 10 times the sense that all of the duplicate Doctor nonsense made. It was, in fact, almost all part of the canon already. The only fancy new writing that RTD had to do was deal with opening the walls between the worlds that the Doctor thought were closed.

Once he does that with Davros...Ten and Rose just walk off together...the walls close...and Ten arrives just as he did for Moff...in the middle of an explosion on the TARDIS.

I seriously hate overwriting for no reason, as you can tell by my long response, I suppose. But JE was completely overwritten with no reasoning behind it at all...except, maybe...they wanted to do 3 specials. And...even then...those three specials could have been done with the 1/2 human Doctor...who would help Ten return as he died of old age. Then, Tennant could have come back at any age, too.

RTD was just...not very genius-y and it let us all down.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-01 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karie22.livejournal.com
That's all very plausible (if I'm understanding you correctly). I think it all boils down to each individual fan. My shippy heart, for instance, finds it much more heartbreaking to think that a) the Doctor has just returned from a universe in which Rose is dead, even if he did get to spend 60 odd years with her), and b) that 60 odd years was spent with a never-aging Doctor keeping the company of a sadly withering Rose. Because that's all well and romantic until she has to start introducing him to people as her grandson. I think the Doctor's whole speech in School Reunion (am I remembering that title correctly? My mind just blanked!) about "imagine having to watch that happen to someone you love" got the point across that he would rather not be forced to watch her age and die, even though, at that point, he was committed to doing so if that was Rose's choice.

IDK, the thought of him having to watch her go downhill (and her having to go downhill while she watches him remain young and strong) just tears me up inside. But, to each her own! Given that the ship (on screen) had to end, I think we all just make peace with it in whatever way we can.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-02 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
It is true, of course, that individual fans would feel differently. Some people love the idea of Ten2...and as I just said in the next I&B chapter...a human Doctor is a lot handier than a sonic lipstick or even a robot dog. But, what sets me off is the idea that it would "impossible" for the Doctor to go to Rose...because...Billie is leaving...or the Doctor can't age...or the show can't be about the Doctor having a family. Because none of that is necessary. As I've said, when you are writing something, you decide how to put the story together.

For example, the MASTER...had figured out a way to make the Doctor age. Which is another very handy thing for the show to have on tap already...much more handy, again, than meta-crisis clones that RTD had to invent and that made him wipe the mind of a companion...so...now we don't have Rose or Donna or the Real Ten to age...so the show is even MORE limited for future generations.

I don't know that he WOULD have to watch her age while he went around being happy and gay. Aging would be a semi-new experience for him. And the proper DOCTOR response, in my view, is to embrace new experiences, not run away from them. Even if he was initially alarmed by the idea, I think making him not face it only limited the show. But, even assuming he didn't age...are we saying that Sarah Jane Smith was just not hot anymore...or too feeble to run about? Plenty of people are hardy up until the day they die.

And Torchwood introduced the idea that the TARDIS gave Martha (and all other companions) some special DNA that made her disease resistant. This background radiation was just used by Moff to create River. And...we also had that Lazarus guy messing about with rejuvenation. I think that Rose would probably hold up very well until she was in her 80's. And I also think the Doctor could have slowed down a bit, for a decade or two. This slowing down, would then have been used very well...to explain Matt Smith being so hyper...after his long rest, he was raring to go.

Also, he might not have immediately returned to our space after Rose died.So there would be no need to dwell on his grief. The writers could as easily dwelt on how life-affirming his experience was...and then, out of respect for his loss, not had him talk about it much. He might have stayed until say Grandchildren grew up...or until he could put together pieces of his machine to return to our space. Or...he might have had to wait for a signal from Ten2...if you went with a Ten2 idea...I wouldn't have. I would have had all of those magnificent humans show the Doctor that Earth was well protected and could do without him for a time. He could have left Jack in charge, added weight to Children of Earth and Sarah Jane...and...AND...had a dramatic call home when things went wrong here. It is just a better way to handle it. And far more plausible.

There are so many simple ways that this all could have been handled, that it boggles my mind they went with the convoluted nonsense that aired. And...most importantly...Rose would have had a full life with him. And he would have finally answered the question that RTD asked...and which nobody else had EVER asked before...and which is now STILL unanswered in the story..."Can the Doctor ever stop running around like a mad man?"

Answer: Not forever...but for a time.

Now, we have all of the silliness with River and it will only grow exponentially worse with future Doctors, for however long the show lasts. You stagnate a character, you say, "No, they can't grow beyond what they are" and you have set the parameters for the end of your show. Something Doctor Who avoided for 44 years.

Rae

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-02 12:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
Wow! That was long! And I meant to saw "would be impossible"...

Here's the thing. Questions were raised in canon and it is the job of the storyteller to answer those questions. That's just how a writer is supposed to operate.

RTD asked, "Could the Doctor fall in love with a companion? What would that look like? And how would it all end?"

He set up obstacles. The Doctor regenerates. Rose is young. Does she know her heart, really understand what she wants? Rose is human. Can she trust someone so alien to her experience? Rose is going to age. Does the Doctor have any interest in sex and if so, can he give her children? Can the Doctor even feel human style devotion? Does he love the way a human man would?

Canon then answers those questions. Yes. It is love. Real love. Yes. Some sort of sexual union is possible. The Doctor wants forever, too. No. Other companions don't help him forget. Nor is he recreating the love, even though he tries while in amnesia in Human Nature. To me, what he says at the end is most vital...and what she says, too. But all of that is forgotten by RTD.

For me, the choices RTD makes in the end, are basically wrong, not because of how I feel about Rose, but because he chose to say that the Doctor gave in to some very shallow, very human fears. The fear of aging and death. The fear of slowing down. The fear of facing himself. And all of those choices diminish the character, rather than adding to his mystery. RTD also said that humans couldn't get on without the Doctor, even temporarily. So that whole Children of Time thing fell flat.

The Doctor isn't great just because the show says he's great. The Doctor is great, because, as Rose says, "He shows us a better way to live your life." And so, he should live his life...better...in the end. Or what is the point of watching his story at all? Is it nothing more than a childishly way to kill an hour on Saturday? Or is it a show that deserves to be on the air 50 years later?

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-02 03:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
Anyway, I don't mean to undermine your peace with JE.

We all have to make peace with JE somehow, because it is what aired. It is canon. I just have no patience with the ready excuse that RTD and Moff make about their lousy writing. It burns me when they say that there was nothing else they could have done. They just didn't think of the 100 more plausible things, that I thought of, that they could have done.

The only possible hope of turning the canon around, that I can see, is what I'm doing with I&B or what Moff could do by resetting the whole universe. The canon is the canon and Ten 2 exists.

Also, it does look like they mean to do Ten2/Rose in the Anniversary Special, because they are planning to release it as a feature film. And I can't see them releasing a reset...so...they must have some idea involving alternative universes characters.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-30 11:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yumimum.livejournal.com
I would prefer it be a missing adventure of S2 rather than TenToo. I'm also willing to overlook the aging thing if it means he leaves Rose and TenToo alone, but that's probably cos my head canon diverts before JE anyway. XD

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 12:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I think Moff is looking for a world of outrage if he tries to mess with Ten2. But that never has stopped him from meddling, so, until this thing airs, I will fret about my head canon.

I shall have to write I&B faster.

Rae

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-30 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bananasandroses.livejournal.com
Only thing I want to see is a happy Ten (and not Ten-that-isn't, ta).

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 12:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
Happy Ten would be a great thing to see again. Hence, my forlorn hope for an original Ten/Rose scene, just to see them together and happy again.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 02:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] timshel-by-love.livejournal.com
I hated JE at first, but I made my peace with it and actually have a really happy head cannon for Ten2 and Rose, which of course, I'm now terrified Moffat will ruin. However, one thing you can count on Moffat for is that he'll always try and outwit us all...so it might be ok? /shrugs.

It will be nice to see their faces on the show again. That's all I'm sure about for now.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
So nice to see them, yes. I do hope they have a scene together. There is, as I've said, not as much hope of that as people think, I believe. Still, I have missed Rose and Ten...and I do have a forlorn hope that some of the threads left dangling by END OF TIME will be explained. But, yes, smart money is on Moff ruining our head canon.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 03:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phdelicious.livejournal.com
Somebody on tumblr said they'd rather see David and Billie do a Confidential for the 50th anniversary episode than have them be in the episode and I pretty much agree.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I also agree that it would be safer to have them do that. And we would have footage of them together, which is always priceless.

But, I do, cling to the idea that Billie has no real reason to return, unless she already had agreed to do it. This could be why she could say, "Nobody asked me to return." She had previously agreed for story line purposes...and so her "It's never really over for the Doctor and Rose" was more than a forlorn hope she had.

Or Bill could be totally clueless about plot and just figure she could use some money for her trip to America. But, she was just nominated for an Olivier Award...and yet, she's making time to film this. Maybe, David talked her into it.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 03:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soophelia.livejournal.com
I'm worried he's going to screw up the ship too. We all know he hates Rose. :(

I'm really nervous and dreading this.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
As I said, in response to your other comment, I'm dreading it all, too.

But, that little voice of hope inside me is not perfectly convinced that Moff really hates Rose. He could just have a skewed sense of what is funny or appropriate to say.

I was happy to see the interwebs go MAD about this news. And not in a negative way. So many people are squeeing, it warms my heart.

Rae

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 04:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soophelia.livejournal.com
Well I am elated that most of the reaction to Doctor/Rose is positive, but I admit I've been avoiding most of my usual places where I read Doctor Who news because most of the time they hate the Doctor/Rose ship and Rose herself.

drat

Date: 2013-03-31 04:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragon-bait21.livejournal.com
Now the suspense will be horrible. I can think of about 50 ways I could be angered by the story and only about 4 ways the story could go that would please me. I don't consider those good odds.
On a better note I actually enjoyed tonight's episode-no sex jokes, no River, no Timey stuff. Just a straightforward adventure. I told my friend who is still in season 2 that the Doctor was 200 years older so she was willing to accept a new companion.

Re: drat

Date: 2013-03-31 06:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I haven't seen it, yet. I will try to post afterward, but you cheer me up a little. I had, as you know, a very bad reaction to the Clare as a child clip.

And, I have no hope at all for the 50th Anniversary. I think Moff is a poison pen.

Re: drat

Date: 2013-03-31 06:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragon-bait21.livejournal.com
Didn't watch the clip, was warned by you so skipped it. Will avoid it at all costs. He does make a comment at the end about wanting to find out at little more about her past. I presume that is then where the clip would come in.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 01:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonewithoutjam.livejournal.com
I'm going to stick to not watching any of it, as I'm deeply unimpressed at the thought of Moffat pawing at things I still have at least some positive memories of.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I would say that is the wise thing to do. I wish I had the strength to resist watching it unfold. I have watched every Doctor Who episode...except a few with Martha...and I shall continue to endure. After all, there might be some chance that one day I can write the healing book canon for whatever horror Moff delivers. LOL

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] auntiesuze.livejournal.com
I'm happy that they'll be back, but we'll see what their roles end up being. I'd like to think that neither Billie nor David would participate in something that utterly smashed the Rose/Ten (or Ten2) relationship, so I have a tiny bit of hope. But I must admit that I would much rather have some sort of rollicking, multi-Doctor adventure ala The Five Doctors. I *particularly* hope that they don't ignore Classic Who and stick to just New Who stuff, as it's the original show that should be celebrated! Green bubble wrap and all! :D

I dunno...I'm not going to speculate on the whole thing, because it won't do any good, but I hope that TPTB make an episode that really celebrates the entirety of the series...not just the last couple of years.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-03-31 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I have mixed feelings on a full celebration. People say David and Billie are too old to reprise their roles, but Tom Baker and Colin Baker are REALLY too old, unless we do some sort of virtual reality situation. Of course, as I've been saying, that could very well be what Clara represents.

Even though it would be irresponsible of me to hold out any hope to my readers about RTD and Moff actually making some sense out of the mess they created with JE and End of Time and Matt's first two seasons...I can't help feeling, as you do, that Billie and David are back for a reason. Billie recently said that she was completely happy with the way Rose ended up. And I thought..."WHAT? Since when." Also, Moff approached David with his idea for the Doctor...and David declined to participate. That bit of news sticks with me...because...I wonder what Moff actually pitched to David, given S6. And I wonder how RTD's ideas would have fit in with all of it. Is David happy because he knows more than we do about Ten 2 and Rose? Or am I just grasping at imaginary straws? I don't know.

As you say, it is better not to speculate. But my mind is the sort that creates plausible scenarios from any given place in a story. I can't help it. And I so wish I could turn a profit with this ability. :GRIN:

But, all things set aside...it will be nice to think of Billie and David on the Doctor Who set again. I really did think Billie would never agree to come back...she certainly looked poised to move on to greater glory with this Olivier Award Nomination and a trip to America on the horizon.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-01 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs_roy.livejournal.com

See ... For me, this is a 50th anniversary with all of the Doctors or some such. I'd rather see random Ten/Rose than the other dude. *Shrugs* I guess I'll have to wait to see if its worth the watch for me or not.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-01 08:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I was wondering if you had heard the news, Mrs. Roy. At least we do have some chance of Billie/David backstage stuff. But they no longer to Confidential, right?

See? I'm pretty far out of the loop, myself.

Hope this finds you doing better than our last missive. I'm holding my own in Florida.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-03 01:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrs_roy.livejournal.com
If it ends up being Rose and the other guy, I will be content for my little RP shopper heart to rejoice. David and Billie, take that, wifey!

I am well. Glad to hear the same for you!

(no subject)

Date: 2013-04-03 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
Well, I do wonder if they just both jumped at the chance to work together one last time before Billie motors away to America. I find Billie's return puzzling...unless it was prearranged. Not that I think she hates Who or anything, but she seemed content to have moved on, while David would want to be there no matter what. So, even though it keeps hope alive in my heart, I do feel that Billie had to be convinced by something in the storyline (or someone close to her heart).

Just to support your fantasy life, Mrs!

Date: 2013-04-04 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I picked this pic up on twitter. Perhaps you've already seen it. If not...enjoy Billie and David dancing again...Gangam Style.

https://twitter.com/DanielR_95/status/319410487639019520/photo/1

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