The Afterlife...Humperdinck
Jul. 20th, 2008 11:38 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rabid1stMore about DW S4...episode 13...one day I will stop posting these...but today is not that day...This one is about Pete's World!
Also there are four pictures from the finale...not so dial up friendly and, of course, spoilers...apparently you can't use two cuts in one post...sorry if I spoiled anyone accidentally.
"The valient child who will die in battle...so very, very soon."
Doomsday comes and Rose says, "My name is Rose Tyler and this is the story of how I died."
The Doctor tells her..."You're dead. Officially."
"My wife died." "Her husband died. Good match."
Queen Victoria gives a lovely little speech about how we must wait for word from the other side once our loved one's leave us.
Jackie Tyler says it would be wonderful if the dead could return but the Doctor says "I think it would be horrific."
And everyone who is anyone in Pete's World...is dead. We saw Jackie die. We saw Pete die. We saw Rickey die...not quite Mickey...and Mickey does come back. We know that his old Gran died before we meet her.
And it dawns on me...that Pete's World is the Doctor Who afterlife.
It is where the dead go. And we don't want them to come back...because life in our universe is so very hard...and they have found peace. Or most of them have...Rose hasn't, as yet. This ending we have is like Orpheus...in a way...Rose tries to come back from the land of the dead...and is firmly returned to it.
But there is someone else who we saw die. Ten dies. He dies...at the end of The Stolen Earth. He says it is too late to save him. He starts to regenerate...that is Time Lord death. You don't come back from that. Sure you go on...in the memory of the next Doctor. You can loop around on occasion. And you become part of the next man. But you don't go on AS the Doctor after you die.
Another really good reason for 10, not 11*, to be in the afterlife is that 10 is the one who died. He hijacked the body. The same way the Valeyard was going to hijack Six's body maybe. Ten broke the cardinal rule of Doctor Who. The Doctor regenerates and changes into a new man and we say goodbye to the old Doctor and accept the new one. The new Doctor has all the memories of the old one...he thinks the same way...but he's refreshed and rejuvenated.
Ah...but...the question is presented...by the few people still listening to me...:wink:
Is RTD clever enough to have planned all this? Or is he simply telling a nifty story with big flashy special effects? Did he cobble JE together at the last minute...to have a real good send off...with all his peeps there...and the earth being towed around...but then decide that he could help with the long break and pen a few more episodes?
It seems he was clever enough to plan to have Billie back all along...and to have her lie to the public for two years. Was this ending the reason? Did he think...Rose just won't stay in the other universe alone...so...I should bring her back so I can send her away more permanently? Or one day I will make two Doctors and one of them will be human and go off with Rose, but I won't ever make Rose want a human Doctor? Or I need to make a clone of the Doctor for my story to work...so...let's bring Rose back for an entire season so I can get rid of the spare Doctor?
I am trying to wrap my mind around the thought process.
Let's bring back Donna...to have a season about...duplication and cloning and such...so Rose can be retired with a human clone of the Doctor and everyone is happy. Only let's make sure nobody really looks happy. Let's introduce Donna by having the Doctor afraid to let her onboard...because he nearly ruined Martha's life...but then Donna can be special...save everyone...and then go back to being as she was. Perfect. Hmmm? It is still not working for me. As you can see.
But 10 being dead now, 10 being the one who should go, that works for me. It wasn't a complete death...it was rather like Rose's, Jackie's and Pete's...there's still a spare. And there's an afterlife waiting for Ten over in Pete's World. That is something we've never seen with the Doctor. He never gets to the final resting place. Usually, he folds into himself. But 10 has been crying out for the normal life...for so long...wouldn't it be heaven to him...to rest...to be with Rose? Isn't that why he tries to give it to 11? Because he doesn't believe he deserves a place in Heaven...not when he's so dark and lost?
Rassilon knew what the First Doctor said...what Ten said later, "Immortality is a curse, not a blessing." To go on and on...losing all that you love...is the curse of the Time Lords...it drives them all mad. Or, in the case of Rassilon, into permanent isolation. It is time for the Doctor to "die" and be reborn...from Donna Noble. A little bit human...a man with a planet and a family and some hope for his future. Not someone who is predestined to always end up alone. He should give 11 the body and take the path into eternity...living a life, day-to-day, the one adventure he has never had.
So...about those pictures...they are making my point that RTD has all this planned out.
This is what tired of life looks like...
This is what love looks like...
And this is what comfort looks like...
And this is none of those things...
*Yes, I'm going to call 10.2 that now...11...because that's who he is. He's the proper Doctor...with a little bit of Donna thrown in. And maybe he would kill Davros...or the wasp...to really save people. Maybe he wouldn't let so many innocent people die. Maybe we need a better Doctor for our universe...one who understands Harriet Jones...and Martha Jones, too.
Also there are four pictures from the finale...not so dial up friendly and, of course, spoilers...apparently you can't use two cuts in one post...sorry if I spoiled anyone accidentally.
"The valient child who will die in battle...so very, very soon."
Doomsday comes and Rose says, "My name is Rose Tyler and this is the story of how I died."
The Doctor tells her..."You're dead. Officially."
"My wife died." "Her husband died. Good match."
Queen Victoria gives a lovely little speech about how we must wait for word from the other side once our loved one's leave us.
Jackie Tyler says it would be wonderful if the dead could return but the Doctor says "I think it would be horrific."
And everyone who is anyone in Pete's World...is dead. We saw Jackie die. We saw Pete die. We saw Rickey die...not quite Mickey...and Mickey does come back. We know that his old Gran died before we meet her.
And it dawns on me...that Pete's World is the Doctor Who afterlife.
It is where the dead go. And we don't want them to come back...because life in our universe is so very hard...and they have found peace. Or most of them have...Rose hasn't, as yet. This ending we have is like Orpheus...in a way...Rose tries to come back from the land of the dead...and is firmly returned to it.
But there is someone else who we saw die. Ten dies. He dies...at the end of The Stolen Earth. He says it is too late to save him. He starts to regenerate...that is Time Lord death. You don't come back from that. Sure you go on...in the memory of the next Doctor. You can loop around on occasion. And you become part of the next man. But you don't go on AS the Doctor after you die.
Another really good reason for 10, not 11*, to be in the afterlife is that 10 is the one who died. He hijacked the body. The same way the Valeyard was going to hijack Six's body maybe. Ten broke the cardinal rule of Doctor Who. The Doctor regenerates and changes into a new man and we say goodbye to the old Doctor and accept the new one. The new Doctor has all the memories of the old one...he thinks the same way...but he's refreshed and rejuvenated.
Ah...but...the question is presented...by the few people still listening to me...:wink:
Is RTD clever enough to have planned all this? Or is he simply telling a nifty story with big flashy special effects? Did he cobble JE together at the last minute...to have a real good send off...with all his peeps there...and the earth being towed around...but then decide that he could help with the long break and pen a few more episodes?
It seems he was clever enough to plan to have Billie back all along...and to have her lie to the public for two years. Was this ending the reason? Did he think...Rose just won't stay in the other universe alone...so...I should bring her back so I can send her away more permanently? Or one day I will make two Doctors and one of them will be human and go off with Rose, but I won't ever make Rose want a human Doctor? Or I need to make a clone of the Doctor for my story to work...so...let's bring Rose back for an entire season so I can get rid of the spare Doctor?
I am trying to wrap my mind around the thought process.
Let's bring back Donna...to have a season about...duplication and cloning and such...so Rose can be retired with a human clone of the Doctor and everyone is happy. Only let's make sure nobody really looks happy. Let's introduce Donna by having the Doctor afraid to let her onboard...because he nearly ruined Martha's life...but then Donna can be special...save everyone...and then go back to being as she was. Perfect. Hmmm? It is still not working for me. As you can see.
But 10 being dead now, 10 being the one who should go, that works for me. It wasn't a complete death...it was rather like Rose's, Jackie's and Pete's...there's still a spare. And there's an afterlife waiting for Ten over in Pete's World. That is something we've never seen with the Doctor. He never gets to the final resting place. Usually, he folds into himself. But 10 has been crying out for the normal life...for so long...wouldn't it be heaven to him...to rest...to be with Rose? Isn't that why he tries to give it to 11? Because he doesn't believe he deserves a place in Heaven...not when he's so dark and lost?
Rassilon knew what the First Doctor said...what Ten said later, "Immortality is a curse, not a blessing." To go on and on...losing all that you love...is the curse of the Time Lords...it drives them all mad. Or, in the case of Rassilon, into permanent isolation. It is time for the Doctor to "die" and be reborn...from Donna Noble. A little bit human...a man with a planet and a family and some hope for his future. Not someone who is predestined to always end up alone. He should give 11 the body and take the path into eternity...living a life, day-to-day, the one adventure he has never had.
So...about those pictures...they are making my point that RTD has all this planned out.
This is what tired of life looks like...
This is what love looks like...
And this is what comfort looks like...
And this is none of those things...
*Yes, I'm going to call 10.2 that now...11...because that's who he is. He's the proper Doctor...with a little bit of Donna thrown in. And maybe he would kill Davros...or the wasp...to really save people. Maybe he wouldn't let so many innocent people die. Maybe we need a better Doctor for our universe...one who understands Harriet Jones...and Martha Jones, too.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
I seem to be bombarding you here
Date: 2008-07-21 03:39 pm (UTC)When you craft a story...you can take it somewhere. It would have been very easy when crafting this story to have showed the shot you have in your icon as the kiss. To have had Rose lean into Eleven for comfort. To have had Sylvia be the one who is upstairs with her sleeping daughter...brushing her hair from her face and telling the Doctor that she is special. But Sylvia is the same cold person...and Rose is running after 10 and 10 is still sad and broken and alone...the things Rose cared about helping him with. If Ten had said...you helped make me better...and then HAD been better...it would have worked. But 10 isn't better at the end...he's the same as always only even MORE exhausted and alone. Now, if this is the end for Rose and Donna and 10.2 (if he's NOT Eleven) then all we have to look forward to is more of the same...a new companion who the Doctor will love and lose. This is the pre-destination of River Song. The future can be rewritten but not if you refuse to change anything.
Rae
Sheesh...typos too
Date: 2008-07-21 03:45 pm (UTC)I meant in Left Turn. You point out that in Left Turn Sylvia believes in Donna for a bit. But then...in the end...when things don't improve...Sylvia turns on Donna again and slips into her own bitter depression. What we are hoping is that now...knowing that Donna was special...Sylvia will never again slip up. Even though Donna is back to being the sort of useless person she was in The Runaway Bride. I think it is far more likely that Sylvia will be the one to kill Donna with a careless swipe of her barbed tongue. "You used to be someone...you traveled the stars...but now look at you...useless." And Donna remembers and burns. And when the Doctor comes back to help her...she's gone.
Rae
Re: I seem to be bombarding you here
Date: 2008-07-21 11:11 pm (UTC)I think I really looked at that line and the surrounding context differently than everyone else, LOL! When Sylvia fought the initial statement, it didn't come across that she was saying that Donna wasn't better, but she was trying to defend Donna -- not knowing the full scope of how Donna WAS better with the Doctor.
I see what you're saying completely in the last paragraph, but because it's not dependent upon just the best story, but rather the availability of the actors and the length and tenure of the exec producers/head writers, I have learned to grasp onto the most positive viable outcome that makes sense to me if I can.
If canon comes along and gives us a better, on-screen awesome Donna than we saw at the end of JE, if it's proven that Rose is not happy with 10.5, and that she and Ten will eventually be with one another, I'll be thrilled from the point of view of seeing it on screen, official canon. But until such time, I'm just the type of person who's going to grab that potential happy-ever-after and say it is so. That's just me.
Just because we disagree on this, don't think that I don't love reading your theories, because I do. I think they're awesome and there are quite a few from pre-finale that I would have liked to see come true, but, ah, if wishes were horses ...
Well...you've got to have hope I guess
Date: 2008-07-21 11:28 pm (UTC)If we expect sorrow and get...something less than sorrow...we call it a gift.
The Doctor isn't a hero here...or at least he's not the hero the Earth deserves. He is taking care of us...like children...assuming that we can't really make our own choices. Is it a coincidence that the Doctor's Army are called his children? Is it a coincidence that only Rose and the two Doctor's are considered worthy of cells? The others must kneel. I don't know...it could all just be pomp and flash...or it could be that RTD really does think the Doctor should be a god.
Certainly, I would be the last person to offer you any hope at this point...because...as you say...my theories don't play out in reality as often as I might like. Though I was right that we would have another Doctor from the HAND and from Donna...and Rose was coming back...after Doomsday. Even that Rose coming back was planned all along. And...well...if I'm right about the Valeyard...that will be very cool indeed.
Rae
wrong about the Master and about Jenny...and the Rani...though I did like that Moffat said he'd like to bring the Rani back. Go Steven!