Well...Hello, Doctor! Yes, HELLO, DOCTOR! S4 E13 Spoilers

[rabid1st]

Yes! Again! One more time into the trenches, my friends!

My apologies that this is so long...but it's worth it, I promise. Optimism Reigns in RabidWorld

Also...below the cut very minor spoilers for Wall-E and speculation on the 2008 Christmas Special. Oh...and I am an embarrassment to my family for my foolish, cock-eyed optimism...I once wrote an essay about Joss Whedon claiming he was a kind and benevolent god...BWAHAHAHA!

But my companion loves me so who cares! :grin:

I've just come back from treating my sister to a movie: Wall-E

Those of you who have seen it...sing along with me...now...

Put on your Sunday clothes, there's lots of world out there
Get out the brillantine and dime cigars
We're gonna find adventure in the evening air
Girls in white
In a perfumed night
Where the lights are bright as the stars!

Put on your Sunday clothes, we're gonna ride through town
In one of those new horsedrawn open cars

We'll see the shows
At Delmonico's
And we'll close the town in a whirl
And we won't come home until we've kissed a girl!



No, we won't come home until we've kiiiiiiiiisssed...a girl!

He never kissed his girl, folks. He just didn't. Some other guy was kissed BY her. But he never kissed his girl. And so...let's look at everything for a moment. Because...It only...takes a moment...to love your whole life through. :grin:

Sorry...I'll stop! Wall-E isn't really the point.

Or maybe it is.

Because Wall-E is about hope. Hope is the point. Currently, we have none in Doctor Who. We have seen the Doctor's future and it is bleak. He does indeed become the Valeyard. He IS the Valeyard, now. The darkness was coming...before. But now it is here and the Doctor's most faithful companion, Hope, is dead. Donna got to live...but at such a cost. Like she told Rose in Turn Left..."You LIAR! You told me I was special."

No, wait, I hear some 'glass is half full' people saying...we don't know that Donna isn't happy. And there's River...there's always some glimmer of hope left. We can all keep watching and maybe...maybe the Time Lords will be back. Yeah! That would be cool. Or maybe there's Jenny or another companion he could REALLY love. Not like that chav, Rose, she was never good enough for him anyway. Maybe something will make it all better.

But we know how River Song ends. The Ood certainly might have been talking about her...or maybe Rose and his hope of seeing her again...that song has ended, too. Another song begins...but we know how it will end...with the Doctor alone. His song was supposed to end...remember? But it just keeps repeating.

But that's the bittersweet beauty of it all, right? He sacrifices his own happiness for love...again and again...and again. But, it is all a matter of perspective...we can make it look happy if we fic it just right...right? We can just pretend that the Master is his true love, really, and one day HE will return...and then the show will be better. Well, until the Master dies or is lost in another universe...or something. But that's the point of the show...it just keeps changing and we move on...yes? And the Doctor keeps getting less and less human...yeah! More and more God-like that will be really cool, right?

Wait! This was about HOPE. Hope and Donna! That's right...it's about Donna. Not Rose. While we were waiting for Wall-E to start, I asked my sister if she could have 40 years of thinking she was nothing much and probably never have a husband or children or a career...but still she'd be alive and with people who love her. OR she could travel the world, have marvelous adventures and know she was important to everybody...loved by them and had saved them all...but she would have to die in 1 year. Which life would she pick?

My sister picked 40 years of nothing special life.

Ah...so it is settled, then. Many fans of Doctor Who would also pick that...many fans would pick the life Rose has now...with humanTen who can give her babies and grow old by her side. Many fans would dump Rose and go have wild bondage sex with Jack or the Master...or Jack AND the Master. And in this ending...RTD maybe tried to make us all happy...and fell a little short of that.

But here's the deal breaker...for all of the fans...and my sister.

What if you didn't get to pick? This is what I asked my sister next...what if someone ELSE got to pick which life you would lead?

This is what is essentially wrong with Doctor Who right now. Donna was begging him not to take her memories. Beyond that...Donna really...REALLY loved being special...and being out there traveling. She wanted to TRAVEL forever. The Doctor played God. He was a benevolent God...yes. He acted out of love to save Donna's life. But given the choice...maybe Donna would have picked death. She was begging him not to take her memories...and she said she DID know what was happening to her. He gave her what he wanted her to have...a normal life, a life without him in it.

He didn't know how long she'd have...maybe not 40 years...maybe only 10 or 2...but he believed she would be with people who love her. People who would have to lie to her for the rest of her days. People who he knew had made her feel small and worthless before but who he hoped would treat her better now.

And maybe they will...maybe Donna's mum will treat Donna well...now. Maybe 10.2 who has Donna's love of adventure and travel doesn't really want to "get out there" but is content in this landlocked life his twin brother has chosen for him. Maybe Rose is going to find happiness now that she has a Doctor who can say the right words.

The Doctor is a kind and benevolent God. He gave his children what he thought they needed to be happy. He arranged a perfect little Eden for them...gave the most beloved among them a helpmate. And all he took away from them was their free will...their right to decide if they wanted to live for 40 seconds or 40 years. If they wanted to travel or stay home with the pre-fab family and little man in his own image.

Russell T. Davies is an atheist, according to many sources. He might give Christmas presents...many atheists do...but I seriously doubt that he believes some non-human lonely god should have the right to decide how people are going to live out their lives.

So...I'm back...holding out hope...that RTD knows that making the Doctor into a god...is what the Old School canon calls for...because the Valeyard is in the canon. But it's not a good idea to have someone as powerful as the Doctor believe that he can dictate how his companions should live...when they leave, who they marry, if they can have their memories or not...etc.

He's on the wrong path. River was a sign of that...he didn't recognize the man she was describing...but it IS this man he's become. So, here's to It's a Wonderful Life at Christmas...where the Doctor sees very clearly the man he will one day be...a cold man who believes he knows what is best for everyone else and who also believes it is okay to manipulate them into "What's best"...just like he manipulated River by giving her his screwdriver...and she thought it meant he cared. He's a man who will never be anything but alone. Not because he can't have a life...but because he rejects life and love and happiness.

Here's hoping he heads off his future by going back to Donna and asking her what SHE wants for Christmas. Not what her Grandpa wants for her. Not what her Mum wants or the Doctor wants. But what DONNA NOBLE wants.

Donna wants to be that person in the stars, doesn't she? That special person. In Turn Left, she was willing to die to be that person again.

So the Doctor made a mistake, the same one lots of well meaning people make...they give the people they love...a gift they want. The Doctor wants a normal life...and he just keeps giving it to other people...River, Rose, Jack, 10.2, even DONNA...who wanted to be special just for a moment. She begged him not to take it away from her...but he knew best!

So...I say...at Christmas...the Doctor gets a dose of humility and goes back to ask everyone what they want. In case anybody doesn't know...

1) Rose just wants to be with HER Doctor and know that he isn't all on his own anymore. She always asks the same question, "What about you?"
2) Donna wants to travel the universe...see the stars with her good buddy, the Doctor.
3) 10.2...is part Donna...so even if Donna dies...her sense of adventure will live on in him, which means he probably wants to travel and see the stars and have a good time, too.
4) 10...wants nothing else in the universe but to be with Rose Tyler.

And we are back to Wall-E and what he knows. And what, at this point, RTD appears to have missed.

It's what the Doctor has yet to learn about the human experience...that withering and dying isn't so bad. We all die at the end. It doesn't matter to Rose if he ages with her or has human parts. It doesn't matter to Donna if she has 40 more years or 40 seconds.

What matters is that people be allowed to live the life they decide to live. You can wait 40 years for nothing...but...

It only takes a moment...to be loved your whole life long.



Rae

Comments

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

One other thing that was off... as someone else pointed out, forget who... was what made Donna special. In the Doctor's manic description of it, she's special because of her Doctorification. She's special when she becomes part him.

Now, you know I didn't watch this season, but by all accounts, including the Doctor's, Donna did many fabulous things this season, saved lives, was "brilliant." Her awesomeness was not dependent on her being Doctor-Donna.

This episode somewhat reduced her to the Doctor's Virgin Mary. Which is... irksome. Even though I never got a chance to fall for her before.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

It is funny you should mention the Virgin Mary...because the River we all keep talking about...died on a throne with a crown of thorns on her head. Just as the Doctor was lifted up by angels in the LAST Christmas special.

And all of this...all of this lonely God business started after he lost Rose. Ten was always an arrogant bastard...a no second chances kind of man...the last line of authority in the universe. But before Rose left...he stopped short of playing god...since then...he's been on this path of darkness. He's far more wounded and alone than his half-human self if you ask me.

And far more dangerous...I think having a bit of Donna Noble in you...might keep you from getting above yourself. She could swat you from the inside of your head. ;->

But maybe that's just me.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

There is also one more thing. Before the finale I was listening to all the Christmas songs and they all followed exactly what the Doctor was feeling. The last one was from that Titanic eppie. In it, it said something along the line of " next year he'll be in bed with his love." Or something close to it. The one before that was telling us the Doctor was tired of traveling. Almost a heartache poem to Rose. I used to think that the Christmas songs were cheesy, but I'm begining to think that maybe they're telling us something.

One more thing. If it doesn't happen at Christmas, don't dismiss it until the four parter. I could tell you why but you don't like spoilers.

[(Anonymous)]

I personally can't give up on Rose. Somehow, somewhere Ten will get to be with Rose. I like to believe that when he regenerates, he gets to wake up in the arms of the woman he loves. His soul goes to Rose and then Eleven can be free of being heartsick. (We don't want him to regressed to back to where he was before Rose or Donna)
The Human Doctor has enough of Donna in him that he will be eager for the same things she was. Marriage, adventure, family. Donna lives on through him and through everyone who met her. Donna will always be fantastic and she'll live an amazing life.
Please, don't lose hope in Rose/Ten! I love your stories too much for that to happen!

[credilya.livejournal.com]

My god. I've been singing it all day. And since my mother was a voice major let's just say the pair of us are driving the household nuts. I have a live in duet partner.

Also everything about Who. Yes, yes and more yes. I feel every jumble of emotions enough to make me feel carsick.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I can't get it out of my head either. I keep singing and humming it...that is just so wrong. Wrong in a different way than Doctor Who has gone wrong...but wrong never-the-less.

I will pet you and tell you that there is a very, very simple fix to all that has gone wrong on Who...and I feel RTD is going to use it at Christmas. And then he will bring the Time Lords back before he goes...and regenerate Ten, too, I think.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Child of the Disney generation checking in to say you are brilliant. ;) I think that the question about if the choice was taken from you makes all the difference. I truly believe that if Rose was given a choice she would choose her Doctor every time. What I'm realizing bothered me about that scene was the fact that the Doctor didn't even give her an option of staying with him. She made that choice back in Doomsday and he didn't honor it. Just assumed that her place was in the alternate universe now. And he was giving her a band-aid so that he could convince himself she'd be happier now.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Exactly...this is what he did before...to Sarah Jane...to River...and he tried twice now to do it with Rose. She doesn't go away quietly and live the happy life. She just keeps coming back to him. This is something Billie Piper knows about the character...and so...she can't give up on Rose/Doctor either.

Rae
happy to hear you think I'm brilliant...drinks a half-full glass of optimism with you.

I'm glad...

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

So very glad to have you back. ^__^

I was feeling really down and angry about everything earlier today, and for a while there I think I became convinced that hope really was dead.

But this, right here. This makes a whole lot of sense. It brings back those very first initial feelings I felt seconds after watching the episode, before my husband and mother started in with the railing negativity that only carried on into the internets. My husband did get one thing right from the start, though. He said this felt like the end of a chapter, not the end of a story. And I agree, I can see this developing exactly along the lines you have spoken of.

Funny how this morning I woke up with the song of the Ood that sounded when the TARDIS was towing the Earth home, all playing in my head. I didn't know why of all the things in the episode, that music was the only thing that brought me to tears, where as last week I was sobbing continuously from the moment I knew Harriet Jones was going to die (loved that woman to bits, and I still think she was right all along). But now I think I know why it was the song of the Ood that got to me, because that was a song about freedom from the oppression that ruled their lives for so long, a song about life and love and hope.

Maybe this is the song we should be hearing from now on instead of the sadness of the Doctor's Time Lord theme, the song of a lonely god. Because I agree with many that he was making all the decisions for Rose, himself, and Donna. It feels somehow the same as the way he used to be in the old days, taking and leaving companions when he felt it was time, going all the way back to the day he locked Susan out of the TARDIS and probably even very first day when he kidnapped Barbara and Ian. It all feels more corrupted now, very like the Time Lords of old. They took away Jamie and Zoe's memories and sent them home because they believed they knew best. And now the Doctor is doing it too, even when Donna is begging him not to.

This has to stop. There is no way he can continue like this without losing himself and becoming the Valyard. Something has got to give.

Re: I'm glad...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

It's good to be back. I don't think RTD is the sort of person who would say that the Doctor should play god. He actually said just the opposite in S1 and S2. Which, btw, means 10.2 knows better...even if he DID kill the Daleks. 10.2 knows he's not God.

10.2 knows that he's part Donna Noble...lovable and fallible...he's more the Doctor than 10 is now. He has the battlescars and such...but he's not a lonely god. And there-in...I think...lies our fix...you can't physically cross the dimensional barriers...but you can cross them mentally. The Doctor did that to reach Rose before...I bet he could trade places spiritually...with 10.2...be human until that body dies. And let 10.2 figure out how to bring the Time Lords back...because you know Donna would think of something brilliant.

Then...at the regeneration...maybe 10 is pulled back into the body...or maybe it regenerates into something completely new...half-human on his mother's side. Sort of. :smirk:

Rae

Re: I'm glad...

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

You woke up with the Song of the Ood in your head too? Wow. At least now I don't feel quite so bonkers!

I wonder how many of us there are?

And yes, that song is chock full of hope. Ten, are you listening?

Re: I'm glad...

[amybtvsfreak.livejournal.com]

That's my feelings exactly. I don't see this as a close of a story, just the close of a chapter. We don't know what RTD has cooked up for the specials, nor do we know what Moffat has cooked up for future seasons.

This NewWho story began with Rose for a reason, and I'm willing to see it carried through to the end.

A story isn't nearly as interesting if everything is puppies and rainbows all the time! There is a reason for the angst and the emotions. It's a journey for the Doctor...and Rose is a part of that journey.

Perhaps he does become that god (what doctor doesn't have a god complex?) that feels he can play with other people's lives.

We don't know that Rose's journey is over. He says that the worlds are sealed off forever, but he's been wrong a couple of times already (Rise of the Cybermen and Season 4), as we can see from Rose's return. Her enduring love for him, in spite of his "playing god" may end up saving him from himself if/when he becomes the Valeyard.

Perhaps he may learn what most of us humans have, over time: "Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

Rae, I would snog you silly if I was a girl-snogger. Which I'm not. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

I think hope is the key. It's what Caan stole. It's what's coming home for Christmas this year. I believe. I believe. I believe.

Also, on Donna, while Ten DID take her choice from her, I do think he knew how far gone she was. Her empathy and intuition, the things that made her so utterly remarkable, were gone. She was more timelord than human at that point. Ten needed her to be, well, HER just then, and she wasn't, and I think that impacted his decision that she was better as she was before. I also think that toward the end, HandTen was more human than timelord. He became more and more subdued, bounced off less walls, became more unsure of himself. I wish there was a way to reunite the DoctorDonna and the DonnaDoctor and heal their brokenness too.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

There is a way...I know the way. I think 10.2 doesn't belong in that other universe. He lost part of who he was when Donna left...he IS like a conjoined twin. He can carry her on inside him...but not if he's sealed away from her. And it is just possible that he could have saved Donna when 10 could not. That he could have taken back what was his.

Anyway...yes...Dalek Caan thinks he's killed hope...I think. And I believe RTD can restore hope to us...at Christmas.

Oh...and I will take your virtual snogging, because there is a little bit of Jack in me.

Rae

[webeh.livejournal.com]

3) 10.2...is part Donna...so even if Donna dies...her sense of adventure will live on in him, which means he probably wants to travel and see the stars and have a good time, too.

I think Human!Doctor wants to hang out with Donna too. In the last episode, the pair just seemed to really get each other.

*sulks... What I wouldn't give to see Donna/Doctor together again talking smack to each other. I don't know why, but I've become really fond of the Doctor's annoyed (Ex. "Donnnnaaa!") voice. The one he only uses on Donna because she talks back to him.

I hope in Moffatt's first season, we get someone as fun as Donna. Also, I kind of want companions to start lasting longer than a season. It's kind of depressing how he keeps ending up by himself in the finale. (On TWOP, someone suggested a companion that pretty much grows up travelling with the Doctor.)

[webeh.livejournal.com]

He never kissed his girl, folks. He just didn't. Some other guy was kissed BY her.

Yup. But on a side note, I'm completely amused by what Confidential showed us. Those two really went at it and very little of it showed up in the episode. That's why I'm not too crazy about close-ups in make-out scenes. We need to see body language because it tells the audience a lot about what the characters are feeling.

bitty spoilers for Wall-E

[nyaaaaaauuuuuuu.livejournal.com]

Oh, do I agree with you.

Because Wall-E is about hope. Hope is the point. Currently, we have none in Doctor Who.

Yes. And the worst thing for me was that when I saw Wall-E, I expected his amnesia to be permanent. This is when I think RTD's got me trained too well. My hope points are down around 2...I've got to go watch/read a lot of happy things to recharge...until I can start expecting a happy ending again.

You know...I just read something from RTD

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

On Outpost Gallifrey. He says his favorite line of dialogue is in Left Turn when Donna snarls at Rose, "You liar! You told me I was special."

He said he loved how Catherine delivered that line with such venom. But you know...really...that's all of us right now...delivering the line to him with VENOM. You liar, we are all saying...you told us SHE was special...then you took it all away. And you took every chance anyone would ever have to be special...away, too.

Not even the Doctor can get to be someone's someone special.

More happy endings NOW please.

Yes...but Pixar knows how to make a story work. And every single person who comes to me to remind me that the show must go on and the Doctor can never be happy...deserves to be biffed with a brick...because it isn't that the people DIE...it's that he's choosing NOT to be loved at all.

Rae

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

I haven't been commenting, only reading along on LJ, - and mostly your posts at that - because after sobbing to the point of being sick, I wanted to have a thunk and formulate my reasons for my extreme disappointment, when I really had thought I had braced myself enough to be able to take it. (Darn you, Murray Gold!)

Your "Hope" post hit the spot, and now this post contains so much of what made me angry about JE, that I figured that I'd jump in here.


I, also, came to the conclusion that Ten was giving everyone what he wanted - whether it was what he wanted for himself or what he wanted them to have (slight shade of difference between the two) - rather than what they wanted, even after and despite the fact that they told him in so many words exactly what they wanted. No matter how many times he says the words "I'm sorry, so sorry" (which, BTW, had me cursing him - aloud and quite viciously - by the time he said it to Donna in JE), he is still condemned by his actions.

The result is that Ten doesn't seem selfless, he seems autocratic. Someone whom we are presently all wary of traveling around space and time with ever again! (I know that I am!)

Nine wasn't autocratic, wasn't hopeless (especially after he met Rose), and wasn't wrong about anything except how many companions and would-be companions he allowed to sacrifice themselves for his sake.

Ten has always seemed hardhearted and hopeless to me.


...10.2 doesn't belong in that other universe. He lost part of who he was when Donna left...he IS like a conjoined twin. ...but not if he's sealed away from her. And it is just possible that he could have saved Donna when 10 could not. That he could have taken back what was his.

Which is exactly why the ending was so backwards! The tragedy is that each of the companions - Rose and Donna - ended up with the wrong Doctor! Not to mention the fact that directly as a result of Ten's wrong choice for Rose and new!Ten, he is left with two impossible, wrong choices for Donna and no right choice for her! It's a cascading tragedy, which originates in his martyr-complex.

And that's what needs to be fixed. Reversed and fixed!


Unlike many, including you, Rae, I didn't find s2 fun. I cried from the moment we lost Nine. Ten's story was all about undoing all the triumphs and resolutions from s1. Ten began by destroying Harriet Jones (and by extension Britain's Golden Age) and ended by destroying Rose ("This is the story of how I died"). Or, to combine the thoughts that I opened this comment with: Harriet Jones' hopes and Rose's hopes, and our hopes for them - and for us.

I only began to laugh when Donna came aboard the TARDIS and (literally!) smacked Ten upside the head - as was long overdue.

I am sorely feeling her loss right now, and tho' I've more to say, I'm finding it difficult to write more about it at present, so I'll stop here for now.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

No...allow me to say...I believe you are right. I believe that 10 was the one who REALLY needed Rose. And what's more...I think that the text has said that from the beginning. If you go back and read my HAND post...pre-finale. You, I think it was you...argued that NINE loved Rose most...and I was all...no Ten does...or came to love her completely. But the main thing is...NINE wasn't "that sort of man"...the man who would play god if not checked...the man who gave "no second chances."

I believe the text shows us just the opposite of what this episode is saying...that 10.2 needs to be healed and 10 is just ducky the way he is. Nine did take up the gun against the Dalek, as they show in the confidential...but by the time HAND was there...Nine told the Daleks he wouldn't kill them. So...9 was healed from the war.

Then, Ten got the god complex...and needed Rose to keep him in check. I think he still needs that...specifically...I think he needs Rose to keep him from being the Valeyard. I love 10...and I do believe he loves Rose intently...and needs her desperately.

10.2 has Donna in his head. That is huge. He can smack himself in the back of the skull...he can self-disparage...he can tell himself, "Oi, Space-boy, Focus!" What 10.2 needs is a Time Lord body...and I'm thinking he'll get one for Christmas.

Mostly because RTD's favorite line of dialogue is from Donna in Left Turn when she says with venom..."You LIAR! You told me I was special!" And isn't that what he let them all believe...going straight back to Sarah Jane...he let them all believe they meant something to him...then he walked away. Or going further back to Susan even...we could say that...but Old School Who...still gave most companions the choice to leave or stay...so it really does look like the Doctor plays God for the people he loves.

Rae

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

What do you think we'd have to do to get you in charge of Who?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Letter writing campaign?

:grin:

Everyone spam the BBC website?

[pathnotfollowed.livejournal.com]

I would love you to analyse me and my my life rae - seriously, your finger is SO on the pulse.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

The Doctor's song is really ending. Not only Ten'song, or the DoctorDonna'song, or River's.
The Valeyard'song is beginning... Or maybe has it already begun since Doomsday and Rose's first departure?
And that's why they played the Doomsday theme at the end of "Planet of the Ood". Because, with Doomsday, we've got the end of the Doctor as we know him and the beginning of the Valeyard.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yeppers! I really think that is what happened. What has been happening all along...he's been losing it. Rose was what kept him stable...and she knew it. Now that he's lost her as he views it "forever", I don't knoe that he can be stopped. Certainly, it appears that he can't be stopped...because Donna was able to stop him before and failed completely this time.

Rae