DW S4 Finale...Reaction Post
Jul. 6th, 2008 10:40 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rabid1stTalk about being careful what you wish for!
How about that?
Well, now...let's see...he poured the regenerative energy into the hand...and the hand grew into another Doctor.
And he ALSO gave the regenerative energy to Donna and she because the first Human Time Lord and for a brief, temporary, span of time...vital to every universe.
Creation stopped at her rather than revolved around her...but still.
Also, in the minor details department...Mickey saving Sarah Jane by popping in and the beach scene and kiss. The Doctor showed he loved all his companions and they were his family now. Sarah Jane even says so...but then she rushes off to her child...which left it feeling a bit hollow.
And, in fact, that is how this feels to me...hollow...meaningless, but epic, a rather weird mix.
Two Doctors...one to go with Rose and one to go on fighting...one human but not human. I remember arguing a few days ago, quite fiercely, that HAND Doctor would be the proper Doctor. He has all the Doctor's memories and he would even have Nine feelings. And there he is...on the beach...certainly aware of his love for Rose...of what he would have said.
So, why is this so unsatisfying?
Because, as I've said a few times...it's not really about Rose for me. People used to ask me if I would be happy if Rose found a human that was like the Doctor...looked like him and had his attitude. And I used to say NO! I wouldn't be happy if she loved THAT universe's Doctor. Because I loved OUR Doctor and wanted HIM to be happy.
Maybe it is about Rose for RTD though...so he's given her this better than original substitute. He will age. He will be able to live the human life with her. He is hurt and she can help him become a better man. But the very idea that he must BECOME that man...means he and Rose are starting over with love. Yes, this is the same deal that Pete and Jackie got. The same deal that Mickey's grandma got. But in all those cases...the REAL love was dead. And not satisfying too. And if I were Rose...I wouldn't be able to go be happy this time any more than any other time the Doctor told me to go live a new life. What does she care if he ages? What does she care if he looks and sounds and acts the same? He's not her Doctor.
Beyond that...really...this episode says she's not going to be happy with a substitute. Right at the beginning it says that. He seems to be the same man at the beginning when he fails to regenerate. He LOOKS the same...sounds the same...and IS the same...if he is ELEVEN. Rose knows all about regeneration...that he's the same man. But still...she asks him if it is REALLY him before she rushes forward to hug him. Now, he says the HAND is really him, too, in the end...and I know it is. But I can't escape the fact that the Rose breaks free of the kiss and runs toward the TARDIS as it departs. Nor, that she looks down at the hand clasp and then back up at this FauxTen and they do not melt together at all.
If they had turned away up the beach, if Jackie had come to embrace them both, if FauxTen had cuddled Rose close, if he'd kissed her, if the Doctor had been happier at the end...content that all was right with the world...if he'd been happy to leave Rose with his other self...I might have been okay with this. But that ending left me expecting Rose to pop back into the TARDIS and tell him, "Okay, that's not happening."
And for now...I am going with that worldview.
I think that is exactly what happens at Christmas time. I think the three episodes are a bridge to Moffat and probably Rose/Doctor kids. I think that aging thing might be what Moffat and the BBC are hanging their hat on...though I was disappointed in that because it was a reversal from RTD on LotTL. And it limits DT's lifespan as the Doctor. As you all know, I hate that sort of reversal on a reversal...messy writing. And it does make me think that this is the real ending and RTD doesn't think he can do any better.
But...I still think that Hand Doctor has more Donna in him than we know...and Rose doesn't love Donna. So, he can temp for the Doctor, yet. So, for now, let's go with this idea.
Ten goes to a Christmas episode...where things go bad again...as always and he's unhappy and alone...and then...when he comes back into the TARDIS...Rose pops in and says, "You want me to stay in another world with the human version of you and learn to love him, while you just go off all on your own and alone? Yeah, that's not going to happen. So, how about this...what do YOU want for Christmas?"
Then the Doctor can say what he really was going to say...which maybe wasn't I love you after all...because that is sort of predictable, isn't it. Maybe he was going to say..."Rose Tyler, I...want to spend forever with you, too." Then...he could kiss her. Which is what should have happened. If they wanted us to buy all this...FauxTen should have kissed Rose. We've seen other people kiss him...but so far...he's never kissed anyone (except maybe Astrid). And if Rose is "all he wants in the universe," he should kiss her.
And really...isn't Christmas the place where you get your happy ending? I would have left Rose on the beach alone...and weeping...for a bit this time. RTD leaves her with the one thing she needs to safely open the dimensional doorways...a Time Lord. Is Rose content? She didn't look content to me.
Rae
How about that?
Well, now...let's see...he poured the regenerative energy into the hand...and the hand grew into another Doctor.
And he ALSO gave the regenerative energy to Donna and she because the first Human Time Lord and for a brief, temporary, span of time...vital to every universe.
Creation stopped at her rather than revolved around her...but still.
Also, in the minor details department...Mickey saving Sarah Jane by popping in and the beach scene and kiss. The Doctor showed he loved all his companions and they were his family now. Sarah Jane even says so...but then she rushes off to her child...which left it feeling a bit hollow.
And, in fact, that is how this feels to me...hollow...meaningless, but epic, a rather weird mix.
Two Doctors...one to go with Rose and one to go on fighting...one human but not human. I remember arguing a few days ago, quite fiercely, that HAND Doctor would be the proper Doctor. He has all the Doctor's memories and he would even have Nine feelings. And there he is...on the beach...certainly aware of his love for Rose...of what he would have said.
So, why is this so unsatisfying?
Because, as I've said a few times...it's not really about Rose for me. People used to ask me if I would be happy if Rose found a human that was like the Doctor...looked like him and had his attitude. And I used to say NO! I wouldn't be happy if she loved THAT universe's Doctor. Because I loved OUR Doctor and wanted HIM to be happy.
Maybe it is about Rose for RTD though...so he's given her this better than original substitute. He will age. He will be able to live the human life with her. He is hurt and she can help him become a better man. But the very idea that he must BECOME that man...means he and Rose are starting over with love. Yes, this is the same deal that Pete and Jackie got. The same deal that Mickey's grandma got. But in all those cases...the REAL love was dead. And not satisfying too. And if I were Rose...I wouldn't be able to go be happy this time any more than any other time the Doctor told me to go live a new life. What does she care if he ages? What does she care if he looks and sounds and acts the same? He's not her Doctor.
Beyond that...really...this episode says she's not going to be happy with a substitute. Right at the beginning it says that. He seems to be the same man at the beginning when he fails to regenerate. He LOOKS the same...sounds the same...and IS the same...if he is ELEVEN. Rose knows all about regeneration...that he's the same man. But still...she asks him if it is REALLY him before she rushes forward to hug him. Now, he says the HAND is really him, too, in the end...and I know it is. But I can't escape the fact that the Rose breaks free of the kiss and runs toward the TARDIS as it departs. Nor, that she looks down at the hand clasp and then back up at this FauxTen and they do not melt together at all.
If they had turned away up the beach, if Jackie had come to embrace them both, if FauxTen had cuddled Rose close, if he'd kissed her, if the Doctor had been happier at the end...content that all was right with the world...if he'd been happy to leave Rose with his other self...I might have been okay with this. But that ending left me expecting Rose to pop back into the TARDIS and tell him, "Okay, that's not happening."
And for now...I am going with that worldview.
I think that is exactly what happens at Christmas time. I think the three episodes are a bridge to Moffat and probably Rose/Doctor kids. I think that aging thing might be what Moffat and the BBC are hanging their hat on...though I was disappointed in that because it was a reversal from RTD on LotTL. And it limits DT's lifespan as the Doctor. As you all know, I hate that sort of reversal on a reversal...messy writing. And it does make me think that this is the real ending and RTD doesn't think he can do any better.
But...I still think that Hand Doctor has more Donna in him than we know...and Rose doesn't love Donna. So, he can temp for the Doctor, yet. So, for now, let's go with this idea.
Ten goes to a Christmas episode...where things go bad again...as always and he's unhappy and alone...and then...when he comes back into the TARDIS...Rose pops in and says, "You want me to stay in another world with the human version of you and learn to love him, while you just go off all on your own and alone? Yeah, that's not going to happen. So, how about this...what do YOU want for Christmas?"
Then the Doctor can say what he really was going to say...which maybe wasn't I love you after all...because that is sort of predictable, isn't it. Maybe he was going to say..."Rose Tyler, I...want to spend forever with you, too." Then...he could kiss her. Which is what should have happened. If they wanted us to buy all this...FauxTen should have kissed Rose. We've seen other people kiss him...but so far...he's never kissed anyone (except maybe Astrid). And if Rose is "all he wants in the universe," he should kiss her.
And really...isn't Christmas the place where you get your happy ending? I would have left Rose on the beach alone...and weeping...for a bit this time. RTD leaves her with the one thing she needs to safely open the dimensional doorways...a Time Lord. Is Rose content? She didn't look content to me.
Rae
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Re: I think it is more than that...
Date: 2008-07-07 01:42 am (UTC)You can say that about pretty much everyone who's ever travelled with him in New Who. Rose got stuck in an alternate world and can never have what 100% of what she wants. Donna lived two parallel lives, missed out on the love of her life, and after all the fabulous stuff she did, had it all taken away from her. Martha suffered a major crisis of self confidence when she was with the Doctor and was later put in the horrible position of possibly destroying the entire planet. Jack lost his mortality and now can never die. River haves a relationship that more or less functions on the Doctor's terms.
Basically, the school of thought is that the Doctor is a Lonely God...
I'm starting to think the whole "Lonely God" business is just the Doctor's own doing. He constantly puts himself into a position where he's always ends up alone. When he is with someone, the way his loneliness keeps coming up drives away his companions. (It did for both Jack and Martha I think.) I think the guy needs to do some serious thinking and adjust his attitude if he doesn't want to be alone ultimately in the end. Just look at Jack, he's more or less immortal and everyone aging around him as well. But, I think he's more or less pushed his immortal thoughts aside and formed some fulfilling relationships. (Ex. His friendships with Gwen and Martha. His romance with Ianto.) At least the guy's trying and living in the here/now. So in a way, you can say that the Doctor's "loneliness" is a symptom of his immaturity. Odd to be saying this about someone as old he is, but he had multiple opportunities to be happy and didn't take any of them. (Rose jumped worlds for him and he just plopped her right back where she started. This is why I hope that she ends up seeing enough of the Doctor in Human!Doctor to be happy with him.)
See? This is why I still hold out hope...
Date: 2008-07-07 01:50 am (UTC)A slender thread of it...because basically IT is his own fault that he's alone. And he doesn't solve that here in this episode...not at all. Sarah Jane brings it up before she rushes off to her son....to her life that she's made for herself. And I suppose we are to hope, as you do, that Rose makes the best of her life with HumanDoctor. But we are still left with a Doctor who is ultimately alone and is making that choice when he doesn't need to do so.
Yes, it is true that he couldn't give Rose a normal, ordinary life...but it really doesn't look to me like she wants one of those.
The slender thread of hope is there...especially after I watched the Confidential and I see everyone saying that this ending is wrong. Billie saying this can't be the end of the Doctor and Rose. And RTD saying that here you have given the woman you love more than anything else in the universe a man who looks exactly like you, thinks like you and is better than you in everyway. That it's completely tragic.
And it is...and that's not really a lot of fun...even to comtemplate.
Rae
Re: See? This is why I still hold out hope...
Date: 2008-07-07 04:57 am (UTC)