I hear they are taking bets...DW S4 Finale Speculation

[rabid1st]

So...those of you who have been following along with my wild speculation...you know that I've been on a particular horse for a very long time.

I am speaking of my very early...Donna will die prediction.

Now, it is there in the text...Dalek Caan has spoken!

So, I should be onboard with Donna dying. No further discussion is needed. But it seems to me that Donna is suffering the whole shattering experience that all companions come to eventually...that moment when the loss becomes too much to take and they leave. She says it...her grandad and her mum are gone...her whole world. She's numb and lost. This is generally when the companions decide they have had enough and go back to their ordinary life.

I would say Donna is about to leave, but there is still the other thing. "What will you be?"

I can't help thinking about how the worlds all shifted to align around the Doctor when he stepped into that hologram. They aligned in the optimum pattern, he said. But maybe that was the optimum pattern with HIM at the center of things. Maybe with Donna at the center...the pattern becomes something new. So, DoctorDonna...one or the other of them...becomes the center of everything. They must be there together at the end because one of them becomes the center of this machine Davros is making and instead of death and destruction...we have renewed life.

Apparently, there is wagerings on who is the most faithful companion. I would say that is the TARDIS. But it also seems to me that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy because whoever dies for the Doctor is automatically the most faithful.

However...I am struck by two things...the idea of everlasting death and the fact that the Doctor doesn't really call his companions...companions. To me, this prediction is so fuzzy that it can be taken any number of ways. No mention is made of the "faithful companion" being a companion of the Doctor. It's not "The Doctor's most faithful companion." No mention is made really of the companion being doomed...but rather it will have everlasting death. This puts four characters in the running for not dying at all but instead having their perpetual lives changed. Davros, the Doctor, Caan (he says he died over and over again in the time-lock of hte Time War) and Jack are all beings who have cheated death over and over again. They all suffered temporary deaths...as opposed to everlasting ones.

So...what I'm saying is...that the death idea isn't necessarily part of Donna's "what will you be?" prophecy. It could be two separate things going on. Maybe Caan is talking about his own everlasting death, freeing him from his madness and suffering at last.

The foreshadowing on Donna dying could be a red herring...because it struck me seeing Wilf go on to Rose and Donna's mum about Donna in space, that he might have been choked up by the very idea of the Doctor.

I thought it highly unlikely before...but now...maybe. Still, it is also possible that Donna has been dying all along and that is how we will justify her sacrificing herself to become "something new." Because, the one thing that bothers me about Donna dying is I think her mum and her gramps need her. So we almost have to kill them off, too. Something I would regret quite a lot. Or maybe...in the Donna universe...there's still a Donna temp. Who can say?

I suppose this is all fruitless speculation on my main point which is that I don't necessarily think that Caan is talking about one of the Doctor's companions at all.

Rae

Comments

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hope that isn't true! *sob* I think it will be a really sad message to send to the kids if the Doctor's best mate ends up being the one who dies.

I'm going to throw my lot in with hope and with all these hints being a huge red herring. *crosses fingers*

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yeah...even though I predicted Donna would die way back...I'm thinking it is a red herring now. Because I do not trust that Dalek Caan is making sense at all.

I think he might well mean either that HE or Davros is going to die. You know...the DALEKS are one of the Doctor's most faithful companions...they first appear in the fifth episode of the show.

And I still say there is something to be said for "lonliness" being the Doctor's constant companion. He has been lonely all his life...he never belonged with the Time Lords...but he may well belong with Rose and her family.

Rae

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

...he never belonged with the Time Lords...but he may well belong with Rose and her family.

That be trufax. ^__~

Anyway, concerning Donna, I get the feeling more and more that she's going to end up being the centre of this engine of planets that Davros seems to be cooking up. If you have seen the tv teasers, you'll know what he intends to do, and I think he's aiming to have the Doctor or Bad Wolf to be the core that powers the engine, but Donna is gonna step in for him and turn the tables on Davros. Something is gonna a give, and maybe we'll end up losing the Donna we have come to know. It won't be a true death, but that change that Jackie was so afraid was going to happen to Rose will now instead happen to Donna.

Anyway, that's my general theory. ^.^

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I think that's about right.

Rae

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

Of course, I could have just picked up on all those ideas from somewhere else. I've been reading so many theories recently that I can't seem to keep them all straight in my head so I can't tell which are mine or not anymore. =P Somehow I'm getting a feeling that I lifted some or all of that from you? I have to go check.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

This one certainly has elements of something I've said. But then...I don't think I am a lone voice in the wilderness anymore, either. In fact, most of my non-shipper, old school friends...the ones that used to laugh at me and tell me I was mad...now are nodding along and going...yes, I can see he loves her and they will end up together. Afterward, they say...and THAT will put an end to the romance in Doctor Who, right?

And I always say..."Oh, absolutely!" But then I think about Moffat and his loose women and I wonder.

:grin:

Rae

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

And I always say..."Oh, absolutely!" But then I think about Moffat and his loose women and I wonder.

Oooh, don't remind me. *whimper*

I think I'm in the same Old School boat that wants to see all the Doctor related romance end with Rose. Better that they bring in the assistants in pairs from now on if they intend to keep romance as a hook for the show. Whatever happened to the Doctor travelling with an entourage, huh? XP Just keep the tarts away from him, and I'll be happy happy happy.

[marrael.livejournal.com]

I just posted my own (very short) Donna theory; and I think she'll survive this. What's utterly bugging me now is, yes, the most faithful companion stuff, the three-fold man hint, and a possible fanwank that RTD may pull which is the most outrageous thing I can think of to pull in the entire history of DW, and how I would love if it DID happen... I'll have to put it in some coherent form on my LJ soon. This stuff is SO getting in the way of work.

There is a symmetry here...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

One song ends and another begins. Let's say that Donna is a TARDIS...temporarily disguised as a human being. She could be the Master's TARDIS for that matter. And as she falls with our dying TARDIS...and the HAND Doctor...she might actually come into her own...and take on the persona of the Police Box.

So we would have a very crack!fanwank world. With our Ten going to Rose to retire...and his TARDIS gone...and a new, new Doctor and TARDIS going forward into the future.

I don't know...there would be a great uprising in the old school fandom...and maybe in the new school one as well. But in a way it would still be the Doctor and his TARDIS...just rejuvenated.

Rae

Re: There is a symmetry here...

[marrael.livejournal.com]

I'm leaning more toward Donna was the lynchpin/keystone to the universe being saved rather than becoming a TARDIS, though I think a new TARDIS is a real possibility as well. Anyways, I feel the main plot will be this: The Osterhagen Key WILL be used (they can't not use it), and to limit/channel the consequences of using it, a sacrifice will be demanded. Maybe more than one character will be involved, maybe a Doctor will die, and (this is where I think a major fanwank could be pulled), a huge reset/retcon could happen as well... but one that was limited to 1 out of 2, even out of 3 universes.

I haven't got it all straight yet, since I have many, many ideas, and some of them are contradictory. I have to say, trying to sort it out before Saturday/Sunday to see which guesses may hit the target is too fun for words.

I think there is almost no way to avoid

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...a huge reset...because the Earth has been moved. Also...since the Christmas Invasion...where we got the HAND...the Earth in New Who hasn't been OUR Earth. Prior to that it could have been our Earth, but so many cataclysmic events have occured to it that I feel there is no way that we can't reset.

And another thing...do we feel that the Daleks facing Sarah Jane were bluffing or will be stopped somehow? Because Sarah Jane dying is a big event. And surprisingly few of us named HER as the most faithful...though of all the companions present...she's the one that has been both celibate for the longest and around the longest. I'm surprised that nobody thinks she's the companion in question...as she looked about to die.

I truthfully have no idea how it all works. But yes, I think the Osterhagen Key will be used...and beyond that...I feel the Doctor's being "half-human on his mother's side" will come into play at that point. I also feel that Donna has a very center of the universe way about her. Which would be consistent with her being a TARDIS, too. Since basically this is what the TARDIS could be said to do...realign the universe around itself when it travels.

I feel that we will have at least 3 univeses for our three-fold man, the Doctor. One universe...is the one with the Time War...the one he's in at 90 at the Medusa Cascade. One universe is the one he and Rose live happily ever after in. And one unexplored, as yet, Universe for the HAND Doctor.

People give me a hard time about the Hand Doctor but I think it is totally consistent with all of the foreshadowing this season...reproduction by other means...transformation...cloning. And it is part of canon that the Time Lords can give regenerations to a burned out cadaver. So why couldn't they give them to a part of their own body. This would be very close to the idea of the looms. And I assume isn't something that a Time Lord would NORMALLY do. My feeling is that they normally share themselves with a new Time Lord.

But since all the Time Lords are gone...he might, in this pinch of circumstances...share himself with his own hand (and there by make me smirk at the obvious joke...uhm...anyway :grin: ).

The point is we have seen the Master pass his essence...his very self into another body...that has happened three times over now in the canon. I see no reason why it can't happen to the Doctor, too.

As for hitting the target...this close to it...it is amazing that we don't ALL know for sure what will happen. And there have been too many guesses for some of us not to be right some of the time. But I love that RTD has all of us this confounded...and I will be really delighted if he manages to tie this all together in a way that makes perfect sense and leaves most of us happy.

Rae

[auntiesuze.livejournal.com]

I'm sticking to the TARDIS-as-faithful companion theory and that something really, really bad (or life-changing) will happen to Donna...but she won't actually die.

I can't picture RTD killing off any of the human companions. He doesn't have a problem with killing off people that we've just met, strangers, etc., but he is still thinking of Doctor Who largely in terms of it being a children's show, and something like that would be extremely traumatic.

The TARDIS, however, although alive, is different/remote enough that she could "die" (and come back - we know he can't go without his TARDIS!) and it wouldn't be quite as bad.

But, that's just my speculation. Just a couple more days!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And...if Donna is a TARDIS. I know...I know it's been done. But if she is...then she could travel with the Hand Doctor forever.

While this is my own storyline...I do like it a bit...because I like the idea of a holographic interface for the TARDIS...making a companion for him during the non-companion times. Still...too much Disheveled for me to back it as a viable theory. I'm just saying if a TARDIS can be hidden inside a person...Donna would make a good TARDIS. Then they old TARDIS could die...and Donna could come into her own.

Rae

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

...who is the most faithful companion...?

My flippant response is: K-9.

Yeah, cliché, I know, but in the SJA, he's off in orbit somewhere...perhaps where they all are now?

So, DoctorDonna...one or the other of them...becomes the center of everything.

At the end of TL, the Doctor muses on that very fact about Donna: he notices that, not once but twice already, universes have reformed around Donna. Third time's the charm? ("Three", as you and I have discussed previously, "is a magic number".)

Just some late night stuff off the top of my head (no depth -- and sorry for the lack of actual texts: I wasn't up to researching the transcripts to locate the dialogue.).

And if they screwup my celebratory weekend by making me cry - for any reason other than undiluted joy - I. Will. Be. Wroth.

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

As I've speculated in my own journal, I think the faithful companion just might be guilt.

Davros wants to reset the Time War and make sure there's a winner this time - the Daleks. What would destroy the Doctor? Having to live through that again and make the same decision - to destroy Gallifrey. I don't think he could do it - remember Nine and the Delta Wave?

But if Donna took on that responsibility, or the companions did jointly, the Doctor's guilt could be addressed at last.

Another theory I heard, and really liked, was that Donna may be some part of the Doctor's own personality, that he stored after or during the Time War, and that these events will liberate it.

Whatever transpires, your quiet confidence is keeping me sane this week. You'd be surprised how many times I've revisited your journal. In fact, it's an open tab on my browser now.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Guilt is what you say. Lonliness is what I say. Or his song of lonliness which according to Moffat has been with him since he was a child. One song ends, though, and another begins.

I do like that the idea of the Doctor retiring has been with this show since S1 when Rose/Vortex says it "All things end. All things come to dust." RTD knew we, old schoolers, would be smug about that and assume that ROSE is the one who will end. That's the thing about RTD and assumptions...if you assume something is a given...he likes to challenge it.

I don't think anyone (even ME) assumes that a happy ending for Rose and her Doctor is a given. I think it will come as a grand and delightful surprise, a twist on what is expected which is that she dies or is married to Mickey or able to go on without him or he rejects her for traveling. The happy ending for Rose/Ten is the least likely of Doctor Who scenarios, really.

And yet, I think RTD wants to give it to us. And so...the least likely thing is that the Doctor is freed of his lonliness. And this can happen three ways in this set up.

1) He goes to Rose and has a family again...and how cool is that spoiler pic of the Tyler/Smith family! Very Cool!

2) He accepts that if he is half human on his mother's side he IS a monkey's uncle and that's not so bad because the humans can kick some Dalek ass...while at the same time showing vastly greater compassion than his own people.

3) The Time Lords are restored with the recreation of the universs. This could be the use the HAND is put to...but I do like the idea of another Doctor. On the other hand (chortle...I do love saying that now) maybe Donna creates a temporary Doctor in her universe. A Ten to do TEN's job until he can get back from his little vacation. People will like that better, I think.

As for which journal you are visiting...Is it MINE or Astichintime9's? I don't know if I'm capable of inspiring you...but I intend to check her out more often if she's become an open tab on your journal. I should go check her out right now...actually.

Rae

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

But if Donna took on that responsibility, or the companions did jointly, the Doctor's guilt could be addressed at last.

OH! And we got foreshadowing of that in Fires of Pompeii when she helped him push the button!

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

Remember in Last of the Time Lords, the Master called his wife, his "MOST FAITHFUL COMPANION". Rose is the Doctor's wife.I don't like where this points.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

But to follow through on that...Donna has been repeatedly mentioned in conjunction with the idea of being "his wife." So, this would only be one more confused person. And it is possible that Lucy just happened to be the MASTER's most faithful companion. He has had many historically...so it is a small list.

Rae

[maypanic.livejournal.com]

Haven't been saying much lately, but I do enjoy your theories. I agree that the TARDIS is his "most faithful" companion. No one else comes close to the hundreds of years of symbiotic (if sometimes mutually abusive) relationship. Frankly, anyone else identified by that title is going to cause such a backlash that I'll have to avoid all fandom for a few months.

"But it also seems to me that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy because whoever dies for the Doctor is automatically the most faithful." That's some very intriguing insight.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And then there is the abstract idea of guilt or lonliness or death as a faithful companion. My vote on that one goes to "lonliness" because it is literally named as a companion to the Doctor...and his song is going to end...and really...it may well be that TEN loses his Time Lordliness right here, right now...giving it to Donna or the HAND...and so becomes human and, ultimately, will suffer a real (therefore everlasting) death...you know...at the end of his lifespan.

That is the thing about that phrase...apply it to Jack for example...and it means he won't be popping back up everytime he dies...but not that he will die right away.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

I keep feeling like its going to be Jack that becomes the new Doctor. Still could be Donna. Jack knows things about the Doctor noone else does and it would explain the nature of the Doctor Riversong described.The Doctor she described loved using handcuffs and was very senstive.She also said he looked old around the eyes. Jack's been told that a few times. It would also solve the mystery of Boe. I think Gwen and Ianto knew he wasn't coming back. He kept saying he would like he was trying to convence himself.Torchwood is only popular in the states (reminds folks of the X-files). They aren't going to keep making it for our sake.Poor Jack needs some sort of peace.

It could be that Donna sews up the universe. She could be the Rassilon and not even know it.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Well...I can see it being Jack for the coat alone. :grin: And also for him stepping forward to take on the regenerative energy. I think what is likely to happen is the Doctor is going to get a grip on the change...because Rose is there...and want to hold on to her.

It is possible that Donna becomes the TARDIS and so his best friend...and traveling companion forever. I keep thinking that Rose is in service to what she is...family, love, humanity. Rose is all about being his other half...completing him and that's been so consistent since the very beginning. I just don't see how RTD could change that at this very late date.

So...whatever is happening is probably in service to freeing the Doctor from his burdens so he can go to Rose and live the happy life he has so often wished on other people.

It is interesting to look...really look at RTD's Doctor...he's tired and he wants to go home and he wants someone to just hold his hand and he views death as a release not a burden. All of these things are...in a way...completely new to the Doctor from Old School. And I can readily see the beauty in clearing them away from him and starting over with Moffat.

Moffat's Doctor might not interest all of US as much...but it might interest some people more than us. And we really would be churlish to complain if the Doctor WE love gets his happy ending.

Rae

[nic]

I'm still leaning towards one of the not-quite companions dying. i.e. The families of the companions, either Donna's or Rose's to make the biggest impact. Maybe Wilf? :(

If anyone else is killed off I will be extremely upset.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Well...Mickey is a really faithful companion...to Rose.

He's been in love with her since he was 5 and he would follow her anywhere.

Still, I would hate to have our happy at his expense...just like I'd hate to have it at Donna's...I think if Donna is going to transform...then her grandpa might die.

Rae