Doctor Who: Rings of Akheten

[rabid1st]

I am debating...does this need a spoiler warning or not?

I just saw the episode and I liked it very much. A new writer to Who and he gives us a bang up story, all very...epic. Though I think they strained the budget a little.

I continue to enjoy Clara. She is easily the runner up to Rose in the new series when it comes to giving me the warm fuzzy sense of contentment. When the Doctor offered her his hand, I believed the chemistry between them. Though, I think it still avoids the sensual aspect that people seem to crave nowadays. And, Matt is lovely in this one, too. Why couldn't he always have been like this? No Ponds. No River. No clowning. Still a bit of a child, but more like the Doctor, for me.

Also, I want to go on record, right now, in saying that Part 3 of I&B is finished. So, while it contains an alien crowd similar to the one in this story, and there is a pagent of sorts in progress, that is purely coincidental. My pagent predates this one by a few years, as it was an original part of Wild Geese 2.

I think I will watch this episode again for the spotting of references, and then post about those. I did spot several.

Comments

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

Someone pointed this out:

http://speculationspectrum.tumblr.com/post/47315953791/clara-and-doctor-who-dates

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

See? To me, that is too self-referential, even for Moff. I think I would be very unhappy if it were that. But I think it is related to that, I believe that what we are finding in S7 is the Doctor trying to remember himself.

In light of this view, I found the idea in this week's episode of the sun eating his memories to be very interesting. Of course, in the process of remembering what he does, who he is, etc, he will remember significant things about the show we all watch. As this speculation points out, the date Rose found him on the Internet and the date of his first regeneration are already part of his internal history...as well as significant parts of the show. A neat type of reference along those lines was the fake parents of John Smith.

It did cross my mind that the big reveal in Idle and Blessed might actually be the same reveal that is coming for S7...and that would seriously blow my mind, as I've been sitting on this idea since I wrote Wild Geese...lo' those many years ago. But, probably it is not the same idea. I am just projecting, like I do.

Rae

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

I agree it might be too referential even for Moffat, but I wouldn't put it past Moffat to do it.

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Here's an intriguing and rather lovely theory, though I have at least one major problem with it:

http://who-lligan.tumblr.com/post/47304596201/my-theory-on-clara

and this is just plain adorable:

http://doctorpuppet.tumblr.com/

I was very intrigued by the Doctor's remark that visiting Clara's mother's grave "reminded me of someone I loved" - if only to hear him use the L-word.
What did you make of that?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

As far as the first one goes, that seems a little far fetched. But...the Roses are real enough. When Clara's mother promised she would always come back/be there...I did think of Rose.

As I've said, before, I don't think Moff necessarily hates Rose. I think he was joking about the clingy stuff. And the fans took it to heart. And I think he genuinely didn't realize how important she was when he wrote Girl in the Fireplace. I, also, think, being emotionally immature, he's not comfortable with genuine emotions of the type Rose represented. So, his characters are more...as someone said, elsewhere...hipster. Or, as I often say, cartoonish.

I have to watch the episode over for references, but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on "someone I loved" because he could mean the other Clara or Amy's tombstone...or he could mean anyone he's lost over time. He does definitely make a reference to Clara not leaving people behind, actually caring for them. I agree with the person who said that is a sign he's maturing emotionally. Perhaps, Moff was equally disappointed in Ten leaving Rose like that? Now that would surprise me.

And...OMG...those Doctor Puppets are amazing!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

My friend, Kes, linked me to this review...I thought you might enjoy it. It is very comprehensive from a literary standpoint. As I said to Kes, it fills me with envy and despair. On the one hand, I wish I had the patience and skill to dissect an episode so completely. On the other hand, for all of the annotation, I feel the author misses, or completely misinterprets, so many points that are obvious to me.

When I'm writing up my reactions to a story I go with my gut...blah, Gah, Woot, blah, blah, rubbish, brilliant, done! Then, explain myself at length in the comments. GRIN!

http://boji.livejournal.com/378293.html

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I've been an admirer of boji's stuff for a long time. She also does an excellent review of Rings, pointing out the beauty of the language among much else. But dear Lord, some of the meta these days makes me roll my eyes. I can imagine a bunch of male writers sitting in a pub chortling over which red herring to chuck in next.

I do like the idea of Clara being an offshoot of Bad Wolf, but my main issue with it would be, why the heck didn't she show up after Waters of Mars, when the Doctor's state was not only unbearable to himself, but threatened the fabric of the universe?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

She is very meticulous. I shall probably check out her other reviews.

As you know, I think the writing could just be sloppy these days, but there are a lot of questions born from those specials. The Doctor goes dark, and weeps about it in End of Time...and the Ood are wrong, something manipulated them...and the whole time lock around Gallifrey is disturbed...and the TARDIS explodes...and, well, someone should explain some of that. But, my feeling is they just are in such a hurry they move on. Though, it isn't just a loose thread or two for the fanboys to meta-gasm over.

People are all over WHY the Doctor can't go back to New York. That's easy to explain. If an easy explanation is given, then go with that one. It's too fractured. Fine, I buy that. The problem, as I've said before, I know...is that so many nonsensical things happen these days in Doctor Who. And the Doctor is presented to us as a magical God who can do anything. And then we have so many eddies in the time stream...like the Woman in White. Who was she? Did the Doctor know? He doesn't answer Wilf. And why have Wilf even ask? It draws our attention, sets us up to ask the question ourselves...who was that woman? Nobody knows, they just forget about it all. As you say, it is like a game to the writers to create red herrings for us, but they sacrifice their storytelling credibility.

It is one thing not to tell your readers what you are doing, to make them sweat out the drama, but, it is another thing entirely to not know why you have something in your story. That way lies the crap island known as Lost.

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

Oh and the writer was Neil Cross, who created another BBC show called Luther. (Luther is really good and I recommend it. I just hope that writing for Doctor Who won't take away from writing for Luther and running that show).

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I knew that he wrote for Luther, but not that he was the show runner. I didn't comment on it, because I have never watched Luther, though, I've heard it is good. I didn't even know it was still on. DW will be in need of a showrunner soon, Time Lords willing. But I would hate to have him leave another show in the lurch.

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind Neil Cross as a showrunner for DW, but I'm enjoying Luther too much for him to leave his own creation for someone else's. :)

Toby Whithouse is free now that Being Human is over. Perhaps he could take over? I enjoyed "School Reunion" (which he wrote) as well as Paul Cornell's stories.

I like Mark Gatiss, but I would prefer it if he took over running Sherlock from Moffat.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

School Reunion was pretty good. Attentive to the past. How did he do with Being Human? I keep meaning to watch it, but have only seen the first one.

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

I really liked the three seasons of Being Human that I saw. (I haven't watched seasons 4 and 5 yet, but I plan on it).

I think Toby would be a great fit for the next DW showrunner.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Good to know. Did I tell you the next I&B chapter is up? It is.

[soophelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I plan to read it—I haven't Doctor/Rose fic in a long time, but I do plan on reading it.

*I actually haven't read fic in a while. I don't know why.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

*snuggles your readership*

Maybe that won't work. *Backs off of your readership.* LOL

I avoid fic if I have fic brewing in my own mind, but so I don't get all muddled. So, if there is another fic out there similar to I&B and I'm just...retreading...I have no idea. But it is using bits and pieces of what I wanted to do with Gum on Your Shoe and Wild Geese 2...with some Moff canon tossed in to help me. And a lot of new bits.

[timshel-by-love.livejournal.com]

I completely agree, Clara is making Eleven so much more likable. I loved them in the beginning, but The Doctor, Amy, and Rory together started to feel like "Who for Hipsters". Like, "how cool can we be?" I can't tell you how much I hated the first episodes of this season. But yes, I feel like the show is getting it's groove back. But are you seeing all the Rose references and parallels? they are making me kind of crazy.

As for the episode, I think the plot fizzled, but on an emotional level, it worked for me. Maybe because it started off like "Father's Day", then in the middle was "The End of the World" and ended like "The Satan Pit"?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I agree that the plot fizzled and was too derivative. I meant epic in the sense of having big set pieces and ideas. Lots of aliens and CGI and thoughts about religions. I loved those Vigil. They were proper scary.

I definitely thought it was the Satan Pit, sort of reworked with more intimacy. I was, as I said, aware of the many Rose references, or past references...give he also mentioned Susan, but I decided not to note them and instead just enjoyed the story. I shall go back later in the week and reassess. Two things I noted...the beast did not seem to consume the Doctor's memories and secondly, the Doctor seemed to have nothing of sentimental value to offer. Since we know he used to have plenty of things in his wardrobe...and this would have been an excellent time for a reference to the past...he could have given up a stalk of celery, for example...I believe, this is a reference to his having no real memories, again.

I know that I am a lone voice, as I have often been..(And also...in those instances, I've often been wrong, as well) but I am not perfectly convinced that Moff DOES hate Rose. People say he does. That's he's blind to the whole farce that is River. But I'm not sure.

There was that remark about Rose being clingy...and he gives us the worst anti-Rose characters, characters that are very...as you say, hipster...not genuine in any fashion. But, for my money, the Doctor truly hasn't moved on from Rose. I always put the desperate clowning down to Matt being a horrid actor, but he's seemed like a person acting out a second childhood to me. And, given what we are now seeing from him, that could have been intentional. That's why I included that little snippet of River and Eleven at the start of I&B, because I wanted to say that I thought Eleven might actually BE a child.

If that is the case, perhaps he is maturing...into what I would consider, THE Doctor. Again, it would make my year if Ten truly was archived and Eleven is the Doctor starting over. But, I just can't believe Moff would be THAT helpful to my headcanon. I did like the confirmation that Ten would have played out S1 along with the Child Amy and then regenerated. I'd always figured that story was still part of what happened with Ten...and the TARDIS exploding. It would be neat if it was all connected when Eleven regenerates.

[timshel-by-love.livejournal.com]

Ok, Let me get this straight. You think the Doctor here, isn't actually the Doctor. And the fact that he didn't loose his memories is evidence, because while he thinks he has memories, the ones he has aren't real? I don't hate that idea at all, and can see it being the case. But where you do see him splitting off, exactly? (also, what about Amy's reading glasses? Wouldn't those have been sentimental to him?)

I don't think Smith is a bad actor as much as he's been given bad direction. Hopefully, as you say, it has all been intentional and now we can see something real from him. However, two and a half seasons of a fake Doctor? Seems a bit wasteful and pointless.

I'm really trying not to over-think the whole thing, but it's difficult. Moffat seems to like to make things as convoluted as possible, and it's hard not to try and analyze every detail. I feel like I'm projecting the Rose stuff and making it more significant in my head that it's supposed to be, especially since they confirmed Billie is coming back. But still he's been so heavy handed about it. I'm just impatiently waiting for the 50th special, and hoping we have our answers by then.

I never read what Moffat said about what series 5 would have been with Tennant. It would have been a nice buffer, I think, to ease us into what was basically a completely different show. That's interesting, but I don't love the idea of him kidnapping a little girl. Is that really what he said?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I think this Doctor isn't actually the Doctor and I think he was probably switch during that whole fiasco during The Wedding of River Song. But, knowing Moff it could be a timey-wimey sort of story and he was switched during The Power of Three, but we've gone back and forth with our S7 episodes since then.

I agree that it would be a tremendous stretch to have I&B come true. That is, to have Ten 2 be Ten due to all of Eleven's run being virtual via some mechanism, probably whatever caused the TARDIS to explode. It is more wishful thinking than anything likely. In that scenario, Moff would have continued on with his original story that came out of Ten dying. Hang on, I will get the Moff quote for you...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/04/05/steven-moffats-unused-doctor-who-story-arc-what-if-david-tennant-had-stayed-for-one-more-year/

Basically, as I've often surmised, had David stayed on the whole fake universe arc would have stood. That is...meeting Amy as a child, crack in the universe, she's always a little girl story line would have been used, only to have David close the universe as he regenerated.

A sort of virtual reality, stretchy moment in time, as part of a regeneration, is a very interesting possibility and I could see Moff doing it there. It is possible that Moff decided to expand this idea out to include the entire run of a Doctor. That is...the TARDIS exploded...as Ten regenerated...so...Eleven, is shunted into a series of alternative cul-de-sac universes. There, he could marry a woman, have sex, become a God, etc. Only none of it would be real. This would require Moff to pick up River from Silence in the Library...and make her part of it all. But it would be doable. What I mean is...when River whispers the Doctor's name in Ten's ear...and he says, "But that would mean..." what he is think of is "what could be." The Doctor, too, can see all of time and space, like Bad Wolf Rose. So, he would see time lines that should never be allowed to happen. Like...the one with River, that he promises not to change.

Of course, I think it would also be akin to "It was all a dream." And fans do hate that scenario. Still, it would make Eleven not only make sense in the canon, but also be quite unique. He would be a Doctor who's entire existence was only a few moments in real time. Clara, is a way for the Doctor to remember who he is, I'm pretty certain of that. The question for me is: Is she a character/mechanism we have already seen? Bad Wolf Rose. The TARDIS. The Woman in White. River. The Great Library computer avatar. Susan. His Time Lord wife. Or is she something/someone original?

For the record, I've often thought Matt was being given bad direction, but my jury is out on him as an actor. I did like him in Secret Diary. But he was forgettable for me in Ruby in the Smoke. Likable enough, but nothing special. And his Doctor makes me weep, but not in a good way.

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

We've been here before. Remember the Shakespeare Code - that recruiting poster for a ship called the Rose, roses all over the stage at the Globe, etc. And it meant sod all at the end of the day.

I agree about the Satan Pit and EoTW world parallels, though.

I do remember the ship poster

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Though, Rose did eventually return...and is returning.

But sometimes a rose in the hair is just a floral accessory.

Meanwhile, I forge ahead on my story. New chapter is up now.