Doctor Who Season 5...the pentultimate episode...

[rabid1st]

So, I suppose I should put this under a spoiler cut though anybody watching this season who was surprised by any part of that episode...should watch something less taxing...like a fishing show.

There were really no surprises at all. Even the things I didn't really see coming, like Rory shooting Amy, I wasn't surprised by all that much. Death comes and goes in the Whoverse now. It is too much to hope that Amy is really dead...because people remember her...so she can come back again.

But I shouldn't be complaining about the lack of surprises because it was a very neat piece of work. Even though I hope most of you were not fooled by the passing along of that painting through the episodes. That was a bit of slight of hand that really had no real WOW factor to it, other than the show can name people from every episode. And I would say filmed in advance, but then...why not show it in advance? Because that would have been loads more impressive.

Actually, one of the things that surprised me was that this working universe lost most of its continuity with the previous Who Universe and has gone all "clap and we will all come back from the dead" on us. For example, there is the writing on the wall of the Impossible Planet that the TARDIS could not translate, yet here is the Doctor claiming that she can translate anything. People can return if they are remembered. I find this plays right into my fic-writing hands, again. And I do wonder about the loopholes being created are intentional ones, since Moff is perfectly capable of keeping track of his end game so that it does all make sense. Of course, he is also perfectly capable of being bone lazy.

Things that bothered me...River saying that the Doctor taught her to pilot the TARDIS when she previously said he didn't teach her. Of course, she could have been lying to avoid spoilers at one time or another*. Man I am so sick of that word--spoilers. But moving on...the Doctor also makes a huge continuity blunder...I can't remember what it was though, but it was after Rory returned. Oh, and there's one about all the walls of all the universes being down again...which would make River...Rose. OR would at the very least give us a few more Doctors in the game. Probably we do have more Doctors in the game, because we know that there was a little temporal fiddling, again in the Time of Angels...with the jacket wearing Doctor. So, perhaps, there is a Doctor that should be and one that is trapped.

But I seriously doubt that Moff is going to do that, have a proper Doctor and a trapped one, I mean. Or even make River a Doctor so she can actually pilot the TARDIS. <<--I rather assume that the bad guys are just wrong about this and anyone can learn...or she learns from alternative jacket-wearing Doctor. This would allow Moff to bring Gallifrey back with a different history.

Then we find that everything has been manufactured from the companion's imagination as a trap to draw the Doctor in. It works, as he was attracted to her making no sense, I suppose. But it is rather flimsy scaffolding for the season arc. So, perhaps there are wheels within wheels...all based on the fact that the Doctor came and went there at the start of it all...and the TARDIS exploded and Amy was never supposed to grow up...and perhaps never did...which would explain how lame her village is. Maybe she was killed in the explosion as a child. Wow! That would be dark.

Of course, it was always going to be the Doctor in the box. Because it was indeed Pandora's Box with hope inside it, but it was a bit of a surprise that we were at the place where he is PUT in the box. Of course, as I said before, the Doctor has this new series identity already as the most feared being in the universe, so we didn't really need the other monsters to pour from it.

And I am still not completely happy with the universe as it stands. Cats and dogs living together. Or Cybermen and Daleks. It is a wonky universe, it seems to me. And I think it is all connected to the TARDIS exploding, or rather, I hope it is all connected to that. Everything in the universe is gone except Amy's house with the TARDIS exploding in the wall...creating the crack and the alternatives. And Amy is crying because she is a lonely child and the Doctor has gone and hasn't come back as he promised. "People fall out the world sometimes...but they leave little things behind, traces...and if something can be remembered it can come back." Which is the whole point of this season...child Amy remembering him so he can return HOPE to the universe.

I very much wish that the TARDIS exploding is from the beginning of the season when it exploded and all of this season was an alternative universe...meant to be destroyed so a better one could be born...one where Amy is far less annoying...but...never mind.

*Okay, I've solved the River paradox for flying the TARDIS. The one that COULD fly it was from a later time stream than the River we are watching now. So, this one was taught by the Doctor and can't fly...and the later one is taught by someone else (or a later Doctor)...whose lesson Eleven missed and so she CAN fly. Maybe she will be taught to fly by the TARDIS itself...since I think it is probably going to try to help by exploding.

Comments

[kynaii.livejournal.com]

My question was, if Rory never existed, where did that photo of him in the Roman gear in her book come from? It shouldn't exist either.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Ah, well, the Doctor (and Moff) cover their bases with that one. The photo comes from the same place as his ring. The Doctor says that people that vanish from the world leave traces behind, "a face in a photograph" is one of the ways they are remembered.

It is a lazy bit of writing, but it doesn't really count as an internal continuity error, because it is part of the time paradox Moff is creating. But I do wonder if he's got some internal continuity errors or are they all accounted for...like River flying the TARDIS well or not so well. Of course, the River that said she learned...was a River who was beyond this point. So, maybe this one learned from him...and that one in Time of the Angels learned MORE from someone else. One continuity error solved.

The Doctor I believe will be remembered via the toys and drawings in Amy's room, even if he is forgotten or if Stonehenge disappears.

Rae

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

So basically, Moffat is having a bit of a laugh at the expense of us Ten/Rose shippers, because there's no way in hell he'll ever bring Rose back!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Well, no! He gave some references that would have been Rose references if we all didn't know better. And I am sure that River is just as madly in love with the Doctor as every other companion. As long as Moff doesn't change what happens to her...she's pretty much a non-entity the way she's written. We are supposed to invest all of this belief in her great love for the Doctor...but there is no evidence of it beyond her telling us..."I'm sorry, my love." Which truly could as easily be a reference to the TARDIS rather than the Doctor.

It is just that...if the walls of all universes came down...then Rose would arrive...unless she's dead at the time. Or hasn't been born, I suppose...since this happened in 202 AD...relative Earth time.

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

Seeing as I've got no idea about whats going on, I'm going to stab at a guess!

The Doctor has memories of Rose, so when time is re-written or whatever's going on actually happens, there's the possibility of that happening, which makes for goof fic, (I'm actually accepting of 11/Rose). But, I'm guessing, that will be his choice, and most people will say blah blah he's moved on, so it's no longer necessary.

I dont believe that River is his love, it's possible she has something to do with Rose, but I dont think that will come to pass. More likely she's one of his long lost relations or some crapo.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

There were no memories of Rose. Amy finds a ring and asks the Doctor if he's planning to marry someone. He says, "It belonged to a friend, gone now." Which is exactly what he says about Rose at one point. The ring however belonged to Amy and was given to her by Rory. So it has nothing at all to do with Rose. River, meanwhile, continues to be cryptic...it is getting very old indeed. And she drops clues about her origins here and there...and is from crossing timelines so it is easy to get confused as I did above about what she knows about who.

Here she is from a time before either of her previous appearances...so everything she said in Silence in the Library and in Time of the Angels...can be referencing this episode. But she still knows him in THIS episode from somewhere...and I think Moff may never let us actually meet her for the first time. But SIGH! Anyway, she tries to fly the TARDIS and fails...even though in Time of the Angels, she flies it better than the Doctor. And when she fails she says, "Oh, I'm so sorry, my love." And we can infer that she is sorry that she has failed the Doctor, because she is talking to him.

Of course, he could quite easily be HER love without her being HIS.

And there is another reference to Rose which is that all of the walls between the universes are collapsing and that all we need to bring back people we have "lost" is to remember them. Of course, all iconic symbolism from RTD's era and all of it around Rose...but here it is probably not anything to do with her. It is just Moff copying the lingo of Doctor Who and applying it to HIS companions.

Rae

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

I remember why I hate S5 now ;)

[ladymalchav.livejournal.com]

River doesn't fail at flying the TARDIS because she can't, something stronger took control of it. She flew it to Amy's just fine.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Ah, that could well be true. Not what I got from it, but I've only watched it once. Okay, then he taught her and did not teach her...or taught her at a different time (in a different regeneration) and it is more of a "YOU" were not there...to Eleven. Or it is an intentional or unintentional paradox of some kind as first purposed...which is an idea I like very much. That Jacket Doctor arrives...but then...if you are right...she does not need teaching.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Checked. Turns out she didn't fly it to Amy's. The TARDIS took her there. She says, "Why have you brought me here?" and she was supposed to be bringing the TARDIS to the Doctor. "Hurry up and bring the TARDIS I need equipment," he tells her. Then someone tells him that nobody can fly the TARDIS but a Doctor. So, it appears that the TARDIS is being as Quixotic as it usually is...by going to Amy's...possibly even trying to communicate something as it did in Episode 1 of this season.

But perhaps someone else IS controlling it. River supposes this. She says there is something wrong with the TARDIS, like something else is controlling it. Then the Doctor tells her she is flying it wrong and she tells him that HE taught her to fly it. Though previously (only later for her) she tells him that he wasn't there the day she learned to fly a TARDIS properly. And then, it is possible that she is simply trying to stop events that are fixed in time and can't work around them.

I am a bit more interested in when River sees Amy's puppets and drawings and says, "I should never let you out." That could be a wifely comment...but it could also mean she should never have let him out of the Pandorica. Then, of course, as the TARDIS explodes, River says, "I'm sorry, my love." And it dawns on me with this reviewing that she could be talking to someone else entirely there...and that it is possible that the time-trippy River is only trying to fix whatever inevitably happened at this moment in time.

Rae

[auntiesuze.livejournal.com]

I liked this episode...but perhaps because the Moff has lowered my expectations so far that anything looks good by comparison! But, no, nothing unexpected. I knew it was going to be the Doctor in the box, but thought maybe it was a future version (the Valeyard?). Auton!Rory killed Amy...unexpected, but not a big shocker or anything. I just didn't...feel much of anything. Actually, the coolest part was seeing all the Bad Guys together in one place. Would have been better if they were fighting each other instead of working together, though. ;)

Continuity...cripes, I can't even go there.

I had a thought that maybe this was all in little Amelia's mind, but I actually like your idea. It's dark, so I'm pretty damn sure the Moff won't go for it, but it would be a much more interesting turn of events.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I like this episode as well. Though, it was pretty much what I expected Moff to give us. I knew all along that his story would be convoluted but coherent. It is also tragically empty. As you say, there is no reaction from me to Amy dying at all. I don't expect her to stay dead and I wouldn't care if she did, because they've gone out of their way to make sure we don't care about Amy...or anyone. Even as the Doctor is dragged into the Pandorica...screaming about how he's their only hope...all I felt was a sense of the pieces clicking into place. I didn't feel like the Doctor was going to face any sort of serious consequences from this. That is what removes the heart from the show...if nothing matters to the Doctor, if we know that everyone is fine...then there's really no reason to get worked up about cliffhangers.

Rae

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

In his original precis for this episode, printed in Radio Times, SM referred to "a love that lasts for 1,000 years." This leads me to wonder if RS - who is, we're told, an archaeologist, is actually the one who finds the Doctor trapped inside the Pandorica at some point in the far future. Who knows what millenia of solitary confinement may have done to him? And will it be her love that saves him?

I like this idea although, rather like "Exit Wounds", it's so far outside normal experience that it's hard for any writer to construct an emotional analogue for it. Whenever RTD went for that kind of scenario, he found he couldn't write it - cf his struggles with Rose accepting 10.5 as the Doctor. It only works if you're the kind of writer, and viewer/reader, who would rather respond intellectually to a narrative than emotionally. With this finale, the former kind of viewer is in heaven now, and I don't begrudge it them.

I actually think the story could go there and we still won't really see character-driven evidence of River's great love, and an emotionally charged situation will be underwritten. That is SM's style. It's what he did with the conversation that ended with him telling Amy her life made no sense. RTD could never have written that scene and just left it there, but for SM it's making the plot point that counts. He reminds me of one of those terribly clever literary novelists like David Mitchell, whose "Cloud Atlas" is a brilliant Chinese box of linked narrative spanning thousands of years, but doesn't contain a single character you can remember the name of when the story's done.

What will be interesting in the long term is whether enough people enjoy SM's intellectual games to keep DW viable as mainstream entertainment. I think it's more likely to slip back into a cult following, and not really take the kiddies with it, because what we're dealing with here is a meditation on the nature of childhood and fairytales, not a children's show. However, the underwriten emotion will make it acceptable to children, since only the adults will grasp the full horror of the situations being witnessed. Curtis almost crossed the line with Van Gogh, but he pulled back.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

What will be interesting in the long term is whether enough people enjoy SM's intellectual games to keep DW viable as mainstream entertainment. I think it's more likely to slip back into a cult following, and not really take the kiddies with it, because what we're dealing with here is a meditation on the nature of childhood and fairytales, not a children's show.

This is why I asked you a week ago to turn your literary mind to an essay on Pandora's Box. Because that is exactly how it struck me.

And I also agree that this is the show we have now and those of us who love puzzles (well that is also me...I must admit) are enjoying the puzzle. The intellectual exercise of it all. What I've questioned from say...Blink onwards...or even GitF onward...is the idea that this sort of thing isn't what people will enjoy long term.

The many headed public is already massively confused by the intricate turns and twists of this story. And most of them will think that what they don't understand is a plot hole. I fell into this trap when I wondered about River's driving ability and was comparing what she's said before...relative to ME...rather than relative to her. This is...I believe the earliest River we have seen in the narrative so far. But she already has the diary and knows the Doctor and he's already trained her to drive the TARDIS. Someone else will train her more thoroughly later. There will be some God-Like Doctor that will come to her...one that is far beyond Ten in his Godhood.

He bores me already. But as you say, there are people who will love that. And it is also true that Moff will TELL people of a "love that lasts a 1000 years" and never bother showing it. And other people will very much enjoy it. I think, my point is that the show will not stay on television with this small cult following of committed nerds.

But you are also right...the person to be angry at is RTD for not completing his movie with a stand-up ending. And maybe he did think that splitting the Doctor in two was the only way for the show to go on without Rose, or with this God-like being at its core. And maybe we could even embrace that idea...given what we now have from the Doctor. Maybe it is just as valid to say that if HE ever loved a human it would require splitting himself in two. But it is okay for the humans to love him for 1000 years...because he's like a god to them.

Rae
who is afraid the Doctor will never be a god to me...never be worthy of love if he cannot return it with his entire being. But there are obviously many people who are okay with touching the fabric of his sleeve, as it were. Or who simply want to have a good puzzle without a lot of emotional muck around it.

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I don't have the time to write essays right now, as my SI supervisor would testify. Also, LJ doesn't always alert me reliably when people comment, or reply to my comments on their journals.

There is so much intellectual snobbery about DW. It's the underlying reason for the Rose-hate, because she had none of that. She was just an ordinary human girl without A levels who loved the Doctor with her whole being. But people think he's too exalted a being simply to be loved. No, his consort has to worthy of him - cleverer, sneakier, more enigmatic. It's such an irony that the very people who accuse Rusty of Mary-Suedom exhibit very similar tendencies themselves. They self-identify with whoever they see loving the Doctor, and they don't see themselves as working-class shopgirls, thanks very much.

Frankly, I can't be bothered working out the timey-wimey plot stuff. I know I'm bright, and that's partly due to David Tennant giving me the inspiration and courage to go to Stratford and take a Masters. But I'm not bright in the way that figures out ever more intricate puzzles. To be honest, they bore me. I used to think that meant I was dumb, or depressed, because I live with a very intellectual family and they all love puzzles. But Stratford changed that for me. So I no longer think I'm dumb because I like my stories to have a heart. I'm not ashamed to identify with people who watch soaps - I don't care for them myself but I do recognise the considerable amount of hard work and talent that goes into them, and if Corrie's good enough for Sir Ian McKellern, it's good enough for me.

I think the Doctor has been split in two under Moffat. One the one side, there is an intellectual parlour game that appeals to the nerdy, who enjoy outdoing each other in fannish obscruity and arcane knowledge. (Having said that, I have some academic types on my flist who love this series, and I enjoy their comments and references - sometimes I join in the fun myself). But to support the parlour game, the show has been distorted and twisted into a highly marketable shape, with huge cynicism. Yes, Moff can have his smart scripts, but to get them made he has to include Stonehenge in the episode that goes out two days before the Solstice, he has to have Mattel Daleks, bring in all the enemies so a new set of figurines can be issued before the end of the school term, and make a football-themed Confidential the night England play the USA.

And so DW becomes a brand, with a beta version for kiddies and an alpha one for smart, somewhat anal grown-ups. And I don't fit into either category, so my prediction is that it will sputter on until the Next Big Thing comes along.

And my dream is that at that point we'll get a David/Billie movie with an RTD script, and it'll be as big as Toy Story 3 because there are still a lot of people who like their smartness with a side order of emotional warmth and honesty, and Pixar are brilliant at delivering that combination.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yes, I, too, have invested in the David/Billie movie to set the series back on a hopeful footing as we stick it away in the closet. I can only hope it will be as big as Toy Story 3. I would imagine it would have trouble getting any backing at all...with the RTD typical ending at least.

As for the essay, I can appreciate the lack of time or the lack of will. It wasn't so much that I felt you should write it as you could and I am fairly sure I could not. I felt that your academic mind and literary sensibilities could give such an undertaking the depth it deserved. I am more along the lines of a rambling blogger--or RTD. I have the thinky part down, where I see the connection or get the idea, but I would struggle with the literary execution of it.

I am admiring you for your Master studies, as I live in fear of the dissertation. I see it all of my non-fiction writing as stream of consciousness work rather than organized to a point. I would like to say that I could organize to a point if I put my mind to it...but I'm not all together sure that is true. My mind is more of a cauldron of inspiration than a useful tool for construction.

As my inspiration has failed me since my illness, I have given some serious consideration to the value of disciplining my focus and creativity. Not sure it will work for me, but I'm thinking of giving it a try.

On the other other hand, I have given some thought to pointing one of my rambling essays at the idea of the Nerdgasm...which you touch on above...that Moff has triggered. He is giving those people who feel intellectually superior because they can debate details and construct puzzles a reason to enjoy the show again. Those people are only interested in love as a vague sort of devotion from afar that they would like to have bestowed on them. They would be very put off by the organic mushiness that is Rose, as well, as you say, of her being so inferior...stupid and flawed and weepy and so...yes, not like them.

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I am admiring you for your Master studies, as I live in fear of the dissertation. I see it all of my non-fiction writing as stream of consciousness work rather than organized to a point. I would like to say that I could organize to a point if I put my mind to it...but I'm not all together sure that is true. My mind is more of a cauldron of inspiration than a useful tool for construction.

That's precisely my own feeling about my work. The MA course has helped to discipline me, although there's a long way to go in that direction. But mainly, it's given me confidence in my abilities, a sense of satisfaction and a wonderful social experience.

I'm terrified of the dissertation. It feels like leaping off a cliff. But, as Julia Cameron says, "Leap, and the net will appear." (I can unhesitatingly recommend The Artist's Way to all stalled creatives, BTW). But I do have a topic - I'm looking at the way Shakespeare is presented as a character in fiction for young people. No prizes for guessing where that idea came from!

I don't begrudge anyone their Nerdgasm. They've waited a long time for it. What saddens me is why it has to be served with a side order of hatred for RTD. I've even seen someone comment that the main reason they want this finale to be happening in an AU was that it would give Moff the opportunity to destroy Rose and her "sex toy Doctor." Strange how those people who mock the True Wuvviness of the D/R ship should now accuse her of wanting a sex toy. To me, the two seem incompatible. And so RTD has taken the offensive pairing completely out of view, as far away as anything could ever be, and that's still not good enough. They have to be wiped out of existence, pushed through the crack. To kill them isn't sufficient - all memory of them must be destroyed. It reminds me of the Ministry of Truth in 1984.

Even the BBC is in on the act. In this week's RT they enthuse over Matt as "the man who made us forget David Tennant." Hypocrisy indeed from the very organisation that put him on the cover to sell their rag a dozen times in 4 years. I do wish they wouldn't tell me what I'm thinking. I have no intention of forgetting DT, and I don't see why I should have to do so to appreciate Matt Smith.