PONY COUNTDOWN...DAY 4

[rabid1st]

No spoilers for once! YAY! Just a big old pony eyeball staring into the middle distance. Pondering!

Today I am pondering something interesting about the BBC Official Site.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho

They have put up a series of pictures meant to convey, I believe, a retrospective of sorts of the Tenth Doctor's time with us. It could well be that this chronology has something to do with people voting for some sort of Best Ever Show that the Beeb is planning. But I've seen the Greatest Moments lists...and these photos are not from there. Also, from a Pony Perspective, I find the photo choices very interesting...



Picture 1...Rose and Ten from The Christmas Invasion. Ten arrives, of course, a new man and we learn about regeneration sickness and we learn that he's "That sort of man" and he takes that nasty stand with Harriet Jones. And he also shows that he's no longer shy about his adoration of Rose Marion Tyler.

Picture 2...Rose and Ten from Idiot's Lantern. Speaking of no longer shy AND being that sort of man. Here we have that glorious moment when Rose is presented sans face and the Doctor shows just how furious he can get...and also shows that he can't quite articulate just how important Rose is to him. Also...let's just say that picture is so very sweet and they are so much a domestic partnership at this time.

Picture 3...Ten and Martha from The Lazarus Experiment. The whole idea of living forever comes up again. We know that Ten doesn't think immortality is a great idea. He expresses the idea that he has lived too long.

Picture 4...John Smith from Human Nature. Again, the idea of a normal life eluding him is presented. He is shown as this dark god figure...frightening to alien and normal people alike. Also, we learn that the Doctor is fully capable of fathering children with a human woman and loving one. Rose is still there in his mind's eye...even when he as forgotten every other name. And we find that there is a way to make him human and then undo that...via the Fob Watch.

Picture 5...Old Doctor from Last of the Time Lords. The Doctor can age. A Time Lord can simply refuse to regenerate and die a standard death. The Master has a wife and an approximation of a normal life.

Picture 6...Donna and Blue. These are separate shots and sort of carry the idea that Donna is connected to the Blue Doctor. He was in his Brown Suit when they reconnected...so I do believe they are associating Donna with the Blue Suit.

Picture 7...River Song and the Blue Suit. Many people feel that River is a wife of the Doctor. And that would underscore the idea that he COULD interact romantically with a human woman, assuming River is human. But beyond that...again...if Ten 2 comes back...he is more properly River's Doctor. So it is fitting that Ten was wearing the Blue Suit for that encounter. But that may be reaching...

Picture 8...Ten and Lady Christina from Planet of the Dead. The prophecy about his death and the knocking and the darkness coming. Also, the Doctor mentions that he is a criminal from his own people. Sort of establishing that he isn't in favor with them. And he turns quite cold toward Lady Christina despite her being a very suitable companion and one that could use his help in turning her life around...he would rather be alone, he says.

Picture 9...Ten in Brown...and bracketed by One and Four in their Time Lord Robes. A very interesting picture this one. It isn't really relative to much except that he is the last of his kind. So it does go along with The Time Lord Victorious. But we have a later picture for that...so...this one is a bit of a stumper if they are really doing best moments with the Tenth Doctor. I wonder what it represents. Just his loneliness and brooding perhaps.

Picture 10...Dreamland Cartoon Blue Suit Ten. I have no idea what this one could mean for a pony...but it does fit in the idea of a recent history.

Picture 11...Ten in the Space Suit from Waters of Mars. The Time Lord Victorious. Ten goes around the bend a bit and things go wrong. He shouldn't be alone. Also, humans are superior (as a certain vidder I know would have it...and also John Crichton)...and they keep him in check. Also, in that episode...we have the suit from The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit which is where we come very close, once again, to the Doctor declaring his love for Rose Tyler. It is probably one of the most illuminating episodes when it comes to his feelings for her. And we do flashback to Rose moments when the Doctor is coming unraveled in Waters of Mars.

Picture 12...Ten between Wilf and the Master in the promo for EoT. As I've said, I do think this is the Doctor's big choice...future or past...human or Time Lord...lifetime with Rose or regeneration as usual? On one side it is happy Christmas and humanity. On the other it is the wasteland and a fellow Time Lord. I can see his dilemma...but I think if you look back through these pictures...the choice he should make is clear.

FUTURE! CHANGE! HUMANS! ROSE/TEN FOREVER! PONY!



Rae
who feels a little like a broken record...but what the heck...only 4 more days until January 1, 2010.

Comments

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

You know what, I am really drawing on Pony today, because I am utterly sick of people telling me to give up the notion of 10/Rose and accept that she will be happy with 10.2. It's driving me nuts. Rose loves 10, not some half arsed version of him. I don't mind if you sound like a broken record!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Stick with me, sweetie! And we will hope that I am not completely mad. Certainly, everyone in fandom seems to write 10.2/Rose now. I hope they are all very happy. But I want my Ten/Rose reunion and I will not settle for anything else. If you ask me...all of THOSE people will happily go on with 10.2 as Eleven...writing fic to return him to Rose, while you and me and RTD and BP and DT and the rest of the pony pals curl up with our happy ever after schmaltzy stories.

I really...REALLY...REALLY hope that RTD gave in to the howling of Rose in his head and wrote backward from the idea of reuniting her with her beloved. Because...you know what...today...I was reminded, quite seriously, about why I pull so hard for the happy Pony Ending.

I met an acquaintance of mine in the store. We haven't spoken much in the last year because she went into a sort of retreat when her husband died. But she looked quite good so I decided to cautiously mention her loss. She didn't want to speak about it very much but...she did share a little bit of why she went into her retreat and said she no longer wanted to talk to anyone.

It seems her well meaning, I'm sure, "friends" were all trying to get her to "get out there and start meeting people"...can you imagine it? But there you go...a whole group of people with such limited understanding that they just want you to forget about your husband and move on to someone new. I'm not saying that doesn't happen...but I've lost people I loved...they stay with you forever. And really...in this case...there is no pressing reason at all for Rose and Ten to be apart...so why in the HELL would she give up on him and fall in love with 10.2? That makes no sense at all.

Even given she might be trapped with him...and find him charming...he would look just like the man she was mourning...and that's CREEPY!

Rae

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

Well, the fact that everybody seems to think of 10.2 as human really bothers me. I think he is Time Lord with human parts, he says himself, 'specifically the aging part', besides why would the Doctor tell Rose that he was him if he wasn't? Same basic DNA, but even 10.2 said he had picked up Donnas mannerisms. Oh Thank You! There is no reason why they can't be together, and I think after the whole cafe scene with Wilf, he is honestly starting to realise that he can't keep running away from the people he loves. I'm totally sticking with you, for the sake of my sanity. I can't give up on 10/Rose, I might find myself on life support if I do!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And then we have RTD saying Rose would be "Stupid to fall in love with Blue Suit!" Yes, she would. Because, he's a Time Lord mind...trapped in a part human body...with Donna mannerisms...she would be "making due" which is what the Doctor clearly expects everyone to do, including himself.

Some of the 10.5 people think that Ten clearly showed that he didn't love Rose by leaving her like that...but I think his manner shows that he feels HE has made the greatest sacrifice. I do believe he honestly felt that he was doing Rose a service...but I would like to think that 10.5 has enough Donna in him that he would quickly question that assumption. I put the Doctor/Donna idea of "Don't you see what he's trying to give you?" down to her befuddled brain...and the thrill she was having imaging herself traveling with him forever.

She thought...no...it will be me and him...traveling...and Rose can be happy with the other one. So Donna I think was channeling a bit of Ten and a bit of her own selfishness there. But, of course, she quickly learns that there's no happy for her either in this scenario. I do feel that she would rather remember and give up her life to the cause. I think though that Wilf will arrange to die in her place. Somehow...not quite sure how.

Rae

[mrs_roy.livejournal.com]

I felt at first that because 10 loves Rose, he should suck it up and be by her side until they part, but then I realised that he left her with 10.2 because thats what he thought she needed at the time. He seems to make those decisions on impulse
could be a Time Lord thing! But the fact that he left her there, doesnt mean he loves her any less.

I don't think any other woman he might love will come close to his Rose. She is unique!

She might love 10.2, but that doesnt mean she is in love with him. I can see how it might be
easy for her to fall for him, to tell herself that he is the same man, and she might try, but
at the end of the day, the differences will outweigh the similarities.

He's just not 'HER' Doctor.

Pony - hell yeah!

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Certainly, everyone in fandom seems to write 10.2/Rose now. I hope they are all very happy.


I don't. Oh, I tried, but I just couldn't follow through. I've just written another solidly Ten/Rose fic based on the EoT cafe scene. Because that just clinched it for me. How can they possibly leave the hero in such despair and claim it's an optimistic show? Even RTD couldn't bullshit out of that.

You can't keep on with the riff that every human being is unique and special (and boy, haven't we just seen that rubbed in - the cliffie is that all that's gone, we're all the same) - and maintain that 10.5 is just as good as 10.

Also, if the original 10 really believed that, he'd have no particular qualms about changing into a different man - he'd have the same memories, same everything - "it's still me." So why does this keep coming up. This regeneration is being handled completely differently from the others. The whole point about the Doctor is that he doesn't die!

I realised yesterday listening to DT on Desert Island Discs that he is a complete advocate of the human need for relationships and belonging. His whole life story echoes his huge respect for his parents' marriage and values, and every song he chose had an affirming human narrative behind it (His choice of Tim Machin's Xmas song, and his admission that it makes him cry, was particularly revealing).

I also have enormous respect for Paul Cornell and he's been hinting subtly on his blog that he'll be discussing the regeneration with great interest. In the context of his other values and beliefs (particularly his religious faith) I think that's revealing. He's also been on Digital Spy, commenting on their Number One Ten moment, which was of course the Doomsday ending.

Wouldn't it be incredibly RTD if all those people the Doctor kissed turn out to have the anti-Master mojo? Christina's Mission Impossible acrobatics would be very handy, Martha would be safe and as for Rose...

I should stop, before I get really silly and start arguing that Dalton's spittle is also part of the great Master Plan.

Re: Pony - hell yeah!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I have very little doubt in my mind that David is a Rose/Ten shipper (or even a Rose/Doctor shipper). His reaction to River Song, turning off the charm despite his love of the actress and the concept, is telling for me. But I also like the way he sort of gushes when the love story comes up..."She's all you want in the universe." That is what DT said about the Doctor running flat out to Rose in The Stolen Earth. It is unlikely that he would simply be fiddling about with his character's motivation at that late date. So...Rose...to David's way of thinking...is all Ten wants in the universe. And I think that is pretty obvious in most of his scenes with her, too. The way Ten simply melts into goo over her and grins so infectiously. It is obvious he adores her.

And when he leaves her on the beach, for a second time, David is quite adament that he does that only because he thinks it is the best he can do given his circumstances...that he does it knowing he will suffer terribly over losing her.

Oh, yes! As the Doctor would say! It would be very grand if the Doctor's kiss protected people from changing and this allowed Martha to make a finale appearance...and Jack...and Rose (and even Christina, I suppose). It would be classic RTD. But I have an inkling that it is Donna's Time Lord brain that is protecting her. And Jack will be protected by his Bad Wolf mojo. Rose...could also be protected by the Bad Wolf...or she could simply hop in after the event and so not be "healed."

I figure that given the technicians are not affected and Donna is coming over all SuperTemp again, the machine will reverse what happened to humanity. Will it demand a life though? I reckon it might and the only TRUE human left is Wilf. My only problem with the Wilf sacrifice...is I feel it is vital that Wilf tell the Doctor about the woman, so something clicks over in the Doctor's mind. Personally, I would almost like that to be at Donna's wedding...with the swirly tie. But I do think you are onto something with the Doomsday filming of a proper ending and swirly tie would mean new filming with Billie. Not that she wouldn't have been willing to meet him on a beach somewhere. Or in New York.

Rae
shivering over the Dalton spittle theory. :snicker:

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

And isn't it interesting that the only companion he's shown with twice in those pictures is Rose? Hmmmmmm ;-)

Big Ponies, No Whammies!

[dharkapparition.livejournal.com]

Throws oats and fresh alfalfa to the pony

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

I was thinking yesterday. Perhaps we shouldn't worry so much. Every single misgiving we had about Ten after JE has been proven again and again in canon since then. He's lonely, he can't even deal with extended company, he's gone unstable. If canon hasn't shown us how unhappy Rose is (which it can't easily do anyway), it's still showing us how very poorly Ten's doing without her. And how much he wants to give up what he's currently doing in life.

So, hey. Canon just has to take that one extra step in the pony direction, right?

...Right? XD ::hopes::

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

This is exactly right! Canon only needs the one step more in the proper direction.

The Humperdinck has proved to be real. RTD did mean for us to notice how miserable and how mistaken the Doctor was in his actions. And, yes, it would be hard to show us Rose. And it would be very unlikely that she is happy while Ten is this miserable. She would be working to save him...so you are right...we should stop worrying.

However, I was so confident that we were going to have our Pony in JE...and it was snatched away. And then...Children of Earth was so unrelentingly dark and hopeless. And it would be so easy for RTD to just go with the expected...have the Doctor regenerate and accept that he should die...and stop fighting it. Let that be a lesson for us all.

There are still socks looming in the mind of the literalist, the pedantic...the sour old aunts.

That said, though, I still believe Russell is not a sour old aunt but a hopeless romantic...and so...he will make like Father Christmas and give us our pony.

PONY!

:hopes with you:

Rae