VIDEO REC: Dear Tenth Doctor;

[rabid1st]

Re: This video that is too hilarious not to link...

http://io9.com/5318093/were-sorry-to-see-david-tennant-go-a-video-tribute

You can make it all up to us with a Christmas pony. Just have JE be a big fat Humperdinck and all is forgiven.

Rae
hoping against hope that we don't really have to say THIS to you at the end of your run...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7r6Oaim85s

EDIT TO ADD: While watching that first vid, it struck me that he very seldom apologized to Rose. In fact, adding to the whole wrongness of JE...he doesn't apologize to her when he really should...instead he expects her to understand him. He also makes no apologies in Doomsday. I suppose love really does mean never having to say you're sorry! :grin:

Comments

[doctordiehard.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but that's just too good.

LOL

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Isn't that amazing? I loved it.

And I notice he very seldom says "Sorry" to Rose.

Rae

[purecreation.livejournal.com]

That was completely amazing. lol Like the article said, listening to that really reminded me of the range of emotion DT carries with the character. *clings to Ten*

You know what I noticed?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

He only says "Sorry" to Rose one time in all of those clips. Is that right? Because that really does speak to the idea of "Love means never having to say your sorry," doesn't it?

Now, I must look back at Doomsday and JE and see if that's true and he's never apologized to her. He does sort of say sorry collectively when he has to regenerate there in The Stolen Earth...and that is in response to her telling him not to change.

Hmmm...and then he apologizes when Jack dies...which he DOES owe her an apology for...since he should have explained about Jack at some time.

Rae

Re: You know what I noticed?

[purecreation.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Nice catch. And yeah, that would definitely speak volumes about their relationship. :D

I think actually he says sorry to Rose

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...three times...but one is when he was laughing over the dog being called Rose...which wasn't really one of his insincere "Sorry, so sorry"s...but was rather...like he was teasing her as her lover. It was precious. Also, one time he says Sorry to her body...but it is Cassandra, so I don't know if it counts. In fact, since it is just where he learns that Rose isn't in there...so it sort of speaks to the idea of not apologizing to Rose.

Rae

Re: I think actually he says sorry to Rose

[purecreation.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I would agree that the Cassandra one doesn't really count.

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

ENJOYED THOSE! (Did you see the additional videos ("What are you doing here?" and "Well") that commenters on io9 posted? Ten's "I'm sorry, so sorry" has always been a peeve of mine, so I'm glad to see it get some attention as an accumulation.

Agree that Ten's "sorry" to (his) Rose in AoS was full of more teasing than sympathy.

Yes, I did see the other ones

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I don't agree with the "What are you doing here?" business. There is so much variation on the phrasing...and it is pretty normal question to ask in a situation like the ones the Doctor and his crew get into. I would imagine that you could have found a variation of it in RTD's work quite easily.

But the "Well" one was nice. I use the "Well" quite a lot in my writing for Ten. Also..."Alllllthough" which he does a bit...but not quite as often.

Yes, I do feel that he's apologized enough. Instead of useless regrets, he needs to start putting his feelings into action. But I do feel the LACK of apologizing to Rose may have it's roots in the psychology of the writers. He simply works hard not to regret anything with Rose...so he never has to say it. Oooorrr...the writers are completely invested in Rose knowing him on a deep emotional level.

I know it might upset you...to look at things this way...but, after what we were told about Jack (that he was so devastated by losing Ianto that he makes this really stupid call about Steven)...it dawns on me that we ARE supposed to believe that Ten is too devastated by what is happening to Donna and what has happened with Davros...to be thinking clearly at the end of JE.

Therefore...everything is Rose's fault...because she didn't automatically "understand" him. <<--this being the writer's position not mine. But Ten does treat Rose as an extension of himself there...saying..."But you have to, because WE saved the world but at a cost...and the cost is him." and "Remind you of anyone...that's me when WE first met...and you made me better." It really doesn't seem like the Doctor is making Rose a present of a happy life...even though the other two (Donna and 10.5) present it that way.

So...Rose basically is a fault...or as RTD put it in his book...SHE is the one who makes this choice...via the kiss.

The only thing that gives me hope in this...is that RTD has a perfectly spectacular kiss...and he doesn't use it. So, he wants us to doubt that Rose is happy. Maybe he's just playing games..."leave it to the audience, I don't want to be blamed" or..."let's keep them in suspence until the very end of Ten's life" or something. I just think that Rose kissing 10.5 falsely convinces 10 (and a large portion of the audience) that she doesn't understand her Doctor anymore...or that she doesn't care what his issues might be. So Ten shuffles impotently away...and we all write happy ending fanfiction.

Too, too lazy for a writer to do that sort of thing, in my opinion. So...still...I hope for RTD to give us the completely unexpected Pony at Christmas.

Rae
who does feel though that we might be getting Time Lords at the holidays...still...they could also give us a pony...so they don't bother me except as a reset to the last 5 years.

Re: Yes, I did see the other ones

[shaela]

Y’know, I think the kiss is one of the reasons I find it so hard to imagine a happy ending, post-“Journey’s End.” It’s not that I think Rose is in love with Ten II. It’s that I can’t watch that scene and believe that Billie Piper’s character is Rose at all. If RTD wanted to fix it, he’d have to start by convincing me that kissing the duplicate Doctor in front of the original is something Rose would do. (And even he doesn’t believe that.)

Well, the logical way to fix that...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...is to let us know WHAT 10.5 said. I don't think they WILL do that...because, after watching CoE, I don't think they are working with logical thinking...but rather with magical thinking. So...we will be asked to assume that things don't work out.

But...several things could still negate the kiss...for example...Ten and Rose could confront it directly...and she could say, "I had to know if he was you. He's NOT YOU!" Alternatively, 10.5 could explain that it didn't work with Rose...because, "I'm NOT you." Fewer words there.

I feel that it is actually an easy fix because we do not know what 10.5 said to Rose...everyone assumes that what Julie Gardner said was true. But...even if it WAS true...that's not really proof that 10.5 is the same man as 10...only that he has the same memories. More importantly...10 is still out there suffering...so I can see this whole thing not working even if Rose suddenly was completely out of character for a minute...and frankly...she IS under a tremendous amount of duress there.

Rae

Re: Well, the logical way to fix that...

[shaela]

…is to let us know WHAT 10.5 said.

Maybe.

I’m a bit of an odd duck when it comes to the way I see Ten II. He’s never been quite real to me. I’ve never really wondered what he said to Rose, or how he felt about Rose, or… anything, really. In fact, I just went through my older comments, and it looks like I’ve been assuming he died off-screen while the Doctor was wiping Donna’s memory since about twelve hours after I watched the episode. (And I still think that’s the simplest solution, if they want to reunite Rose and the original Doctor.)

I think the only way I could accept the kiss is if Rose told the original Doctor, “I was kissing him goodbye, you idiot,” or words to that effect.

And...him not being real...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...is also a possiblity. It is possible that the Doctor is completely wrong about everything...and can just go get his hand energy back. The remaining healing power he lost...or...10.5 died. There is a sense that some of what 10 does there on the beach is aimed at saving Donna. I could see how he wouldn't be able to stay with Rose if the cost was Donna's life. And so...he offers Rose a chance to escape the "One will die" fate...while saving Donna.

I'm sure Rose can easily dismiss the kiss. It isn't the passionate kiss of the confidential...and HE should have kissed HER. That's the proper way to do it. The JE kiss had all the earmarks of all the other false kisses.

Rae

Re: And...him not being real...

[shaela]

I think part of the problem is that Ten II literally didn’t exist till twenty minutes into “Journey’s End.” He practically screams “plot device.”

There is a sense that some of what 10 does there on the beach is aimed at saving Donna.

But if he knew that Donna was in trouble before she started babbling (and I’m not saying that you’re wrong), why didn’t he say anything sooner? He had a whole team of bright, talented people aboard the Tardis, not to mention two other Time Lords. If he’d told them what was happening, maybe they could’ve found a better way of dealing with it.

The JE kiss had all the earmarks of all the other false kisses.

In my eyes, the only real kiss in Doctor Who was at the end of “The Parting of the Ways.” Sure, you could argue that the Doctor only kissed Rose to save her life. But it felt real in a way the others don’t.