The Long, Dark Night of the Doctor's Soul

[rabid1st]

Or...My, God! Am I Ever Going To Stop Going On About This?

Well, I did stop going on about Buffy...eventually...but I haven't forgiven Joss Whedon for his many sins...so...hard to tell.

If it is any consolation, I am getting a bit bored, as I've said.

This discussion is more about the idea that storytellers in the modern age don't have time and need not bother to complete their tales with anything approaching satisfaction for the audience...because the audience can just..., oh, I don't know, make it up to suit themselves?



Sorry, but no! That's not really how it works. Shoddy writing is shoddy writing. I see no reason why the fans can't get no satisfaction. Show of hands for everyone who is familiar with a book called "Save the Cat." In that book series the author surmises that your hero must save the cat, or try to, in order to be worthy of the term HERO! He must do the thing that makes us like him...understand that he IS the hero!

The hero makes choices. He would like his life to continue as it always has...but something has come along to make him less comfortable with that life...in the Doctor's case...he can no longer be the happy wanderer of old...he must shoulder the entire weight of the universe, take on every task his people used to perform...as penance for his sins.

The hero goes on trying to do things the way he used to do them. In the Doctor's case...he is trying to still pick up people and travel for a bit and have fun and move on. But...he is learning something new...that he NEEDS people. He isn't just having fun anymore.

In order to have a satisfactory solution to the piece, the Doctor's way of life must be questioned and A NEW WAY found. This is why Journey's End is so devastating...it reads as "All Is Lost" rather than the end of the piece. Here the Doctor has learned that he is not a hero and he can't change and so we have no primal satisfaction in this ending. The audience makes an ending up to suit them: primarily that Ten 2 and Rose are the happy couple now.

The reason fans start making up endings...is they need to satisfy the primal brain, as Blake Snyder (the fellow that wrote Save the Cat) would put it. And I think that's right. No caveman (or child, as I often say) would really understand what happened in Journey's End. They would recoil from the idea that our hero gives up and just goes on as he always has, given that he ran to Rose's arms and was so desparate for her less than an hour earlier in the episode. The cat wasn't saved. The cat was ignored. Ignoring the cat is a choice...but it isn't a choice that a HERO makes. Putting it another way, "No, Grandpa you read that bit wrong. Buttercup doesn't marry Humperdinck!" <<--the reason she doesn't is because she is our hero's true love. And that's not how the story goes.

And so, what we have then, is a Doctor in denial of his own needs. And a story in denial of its proper ending. A hero (and possibly a writer) afraid of the change they have been confronting in the story all along. This could be the long, dark night of the soul that comes before the eventual facing of truths. In the true finale, we move from what was (old school Who), through what was learned (the Doctor loves Rose and Donna and Sarah Jane and River and Jack, too)...to a new beginning (a Doctor who goes to Rose and so is free to one day romance someone else, like River Song). Regeneration is a new beginning. But I maintain that if the Doctor doesn't go to Rose...if he doesn't accept that he needs her...then all we have is business as usual...and that's not a story. That is a set-up for a story.

Our hero needs to address the "cat" that was introduced by Rose..."I know how sad you are" and "He does it all alone" and "All on your own?" and "Even if he is (dead), how can I leave him there, all on his own." and from Sarah Jane "You act like such a lonely man and yet you have the biggest family on Earth." He needs to face the change that has come over him...the Time Lords are gone...and he can only find happiness with the humans, now. This is what he can have from life...and he should embrace his emphemeral love, without shame or reservation.



Rae

Comments

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

This is why I've been of the opinion for the past year and some odd days that Journey's End is only brilliant as a MIDDLE, not an ending. It's very much one of those gut-feelings that any semi-involved viewer groks instinctively, even if they don't understand the why's behind it. You don't just leave your hero using the rain to mask his tears as he stands about in his shirtsleeves. Ten is still very much addressing his misery in the specials we've seen thus far. It's nearly as blatant as him mentioning Rose every three minutes in Series 3.

Ergo, Pony. Or a lynching. Either will be satisfying at this point ;)

Ooooh...an old fashioned lynching...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...yes, that's what we do with pony thieves in these parts, Mr. R.T. Davies. If you can't produce a pony in short order...I think we're going to have to get a rope.

:evil snicker:

Yes, I agree, of course, that JE works as a middle part...or rather...the pentultimate "all is lost" scene where it seems like our hero is unwilling or unable to rise to the task before him. I would draw the line at calling it brilliant...but I am willing to admit that if it leads to a pony it is brilliant...because he would totally surprise even ME with the pony now.

In a tragedy like CoE...the hero fails and is forever changed by, defined by his failure. But, that is where Doctor Who opened...with the badly scarred hero attempting to rediscover himself. I still have hope that in the end...Doctor Who is not a tragedy...and so our hero will find a way to be heroic for the people who care so much about him. And he will embrace the idea of a human family...shorter lived...but still able to offer him comfort and love while they are with him.

That's the thing...no matter how you slice it...Ten let's Donna, Rose and the audience down. And the last two specials have made it crystal clear that he also let himself down. I have no doubt that RTD loves Rose Tyler...and she's coming back...so...it is hard for me to imagine that (given Donna is ALSO coming back) Ten won't have a chance to do the right thing this time.

Rae

Re: Ooooh...an old fashioned lynching...

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately a chance to do the right thing isn't quite enough - he had that in JE.

As for a lynching, I rather hope it's happening in San Diego this weekend.

You know...I have mixed feelings

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...about San Diego. On the one hand, I do hope that RTD has to deal with the raw emotions he unleashed in the Torchwood faithful. I think he needs to have some first hand experience with the pain. But, of course, I don't want him to be hurt...either by someone throwing something (which I could definitely see happening, unfortunately)...nor by people like you and I showing such scorn. I even feel bad about writing all of this criticism...because RTD does really work hard on his work. He just, obviously, needs to gain a new perspective.

Also, unlike Joss Whedon who went around boosting of his genius and claiming people just didn't understand him, RTD seems to take this childish glee in "surprising" the audience and in making them cry. He doesn't seem lofty in his Writer's Tale...but rather...out of touch and a bit desparate to do a good job. Of course, RTD hasn't yet had the American fan experience. Nerds can be mindlessly devoted or nitpicking and unforgiving. I don't know which lot he's about to face in San Diego.

Rae

Re: You know...I have mixed feelings

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

It's going to be fascinating watching the fallout once CoE gets broadcast...No, I don't want him lynched. Taken down a peg or two, maybe. The ending of DW is a done deal by now, anyway, though I suppose the question of a movie is still open. The kind of criticism that does depress me is when people expect every decision to be based on PC rather than dramatic reasons. There are all sorts of reasons why Ianto shouldn't have died, but I don't regard it as any statement about gay issues, either way.

I do wonder if we'll see DT struggling to pour oil on troubled waters. With such natural charm, he'd do it well.

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

I must be perverse, or you must be feeling better, because reading your recent posts have begun to make me laugh again. :-D

Regarding my last comments: I have been typing with my thumbs on Bbrry, so posts have been a laborious process and I must be entirely moved to say something, albeit tersely, and I suspect that the message doesn't actually get across. Forgive me that, please.

Before you posted about tragedy vs. drama the other day, I'd been musing over the difference between comedy vs. tragedy as I'd learned it in school: basically, that comedy ends in a wedding and tragedy does not. (I took a course on "Shakespeare’s Comedies & Histories" in college. I suppose it's telling that I skipped over the Tragedies entirely, huh?) Moreover, I recalled that lovely Roger Rees version of Nicholas Nickleby -- which included scenes of a Bowdlerized Romeo and Juliet that (friends &) I have been laughing about for years. (Not dead yet. Just a flesh wound. I'm getting better ...and...I'm a woman! Huzzah! :-P) Seen it?

Point is, that if you have a go at the individual threads, it's possible to re-envision the tragedy into a completely different pattern. And perhaps a better one? You've said as much from the POV of a storyteller; I'm seeing it from the audience's perspective.

Right now, it's not a pretty pattern: Why did RTD (re-)create a Doctor who was in so much pain? Why has he continued to suffer for these past years? Why have we, the audience, been suffering for him, with him and because of him? Yes, it's a hero's journey, but I'll tell you that for me, a little bit of suffering goes a long way: I'm *not* dumb or numb; I don't need to be bludgeoned with the message.

Here's a phrase of wisdom that was given to me that I'll share with you here: "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is not." (Hello, Ten. :waves: Hello, RTD.) Did you ever notice that Rose doesn't suffer and mope: she acts with purpose to end her suffering. Ten, in contrast, by turns runs from it and revels in it. RTD does seem to know the difference. But what (and whose) story does he really intend to tell?

I don't know any spoilers/rumors beyond what you've written. Personally, I would be more optimistic if I hadn't (just) read The Writer's Tale and discovered that (based on his emails) RTD doesn't seem to have a big picture in mind. I know, misdirection may be his intention here, as he is not yet through w/ DW, TW & SJA, but still...

I like what you and wickedgillie have just written about JE and all the rest of these recent tragedies being part of the ongoing story, not the ending. We've have our Fellowship; the characters have come together and then separated. If this is our Two Towers book - the one that was most difficult for me to slog through - perhaps we can yet still hope for our Return of the King. And yes, even there - as in Histories - you learn how all the principals eventually pass on and you also know that while they lived they were content.

I'd learn to be fine with the passing of the characters in RTD's new Whoverse, if only I thought that while they lived they, too, were content.

- - - -

P.S. - Have you read Christopher Moore's Fool, yet? It’s based on King Lear. I recommend it -- and I am in agonies of ecstasy over Euan Morton's audiobook reading of it. (He’s Scottish. I heard bits of DT’s dialect from time to time.) Might be a pleasant (bawdy, obscene, profound, profane) diversion from all this DW angst. Meanwhile, I'll go search for Save The Cat.

P.P.S. - As you were following the Hamlet updates from the RSC & Illuminations, I thought you might also be interested in National Theatre's plans to broadcast their productions to local venues in the USA. NT Live and How it works.

P.P.P.S. - Not on a Bbrry now...can't you tell! ;-)

Yes...I can tell

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...that you have, now, engaged all fingers in the typing process. :grin:

I have Moore's Lamb and I've seen Fool but have not read it. I do love me some good satire though...so I should give it a go. I need to be in the mood for Moore, but I do enjoy his style. I shall see if my library has the audio version...because I need something new to listen to in the car. I just listened to Lord John and the Private Matter. I was astounded when I realized Lord John was gay...what a marvelous idea for a regency mystery series. I never read the Jamie Frazier romances...but mostly that's because I lack patience with trilogies.

I had not heard about the National Theater broadcasts...but that sounds promising. Orlando has a lovely theater in the round...we saw the Scottish Play there last year and it was stunning. As for the definition of tragedy vs. comedy...I was told that in tragedy everyone dies and in comedy they live. Of course, the point I was making was that drama can bring on a whole host of moods and isn't always at its best when the audience gets upset. <<---RTD's point (which a few of his closest fans came out to support).

"Pain is inevitable, Suffering is not." (Hello, Ten. :waves: Hello, RTD.) Did you ever notice that Rose doesn't suffer and mope: she acts with purpose to end her suffering. Ten, in contrast, by turns runs from it and revels in it. RTD does seem to know the difference. But what (and whose) story does he really intend to tell?

The thing that struck me soundly, and really gave me pause, was RTD saying Rose was "selfish" in her insistent devotion to the Doctor. To me, her loyalty to him isn't the least bit selfish. It is single-minded, but selfless. Yes, she doesn't give much thought to Mickey or her Mother...but her loyalty to the Doctor is almost completely directed toward HIS happiness. I believe that what RTD is saying is that Rose doesn't care if the Doctor would rather be alone than deal with his feelings. She makes him deal with them. Which does fly right in the face of so many interpretations of Rose that believe she lets the Doctor walk all over her and doesn't dare get him upset.

I've never been one of those people...because I've seen Dalek and The Shakespeare Code and Father's Day and Doomsday...and Rose isn't afraid of him. Rose, in fact, knows him inside and out...which HE tells us in The Satan Pit and in Journey's End. "Oh, she knows!" People get caught up in the assumptions Rose makes...like assuming she's the only one he's ever been close to. Not the only one he's ever TRAVELED with...as he tells her, "I've traveled with a lot of people in my time, but you're setting new records for jeopardy friendly."

This tells us...that Rose knows about other people...what she's asking there in School Reunion is "Am I special to you? Do you just leave us behind?" And the Doctor can't say...but later...later...he most definitely DOES get to that point...it is the message of the series...so far. RTD says in The Writer's Tale...that he can't stop writing the Doctor in love.

Can he love a human being? YES! That has been answered...but...will he allow himself to experience that love, fully? Can he embrace the fleeting happiness of loving a mortal woman? Isn't that what we should be hoping for? Yes!

After that...after he allows himself to live that life with Rose...when he tell her he loves her...then...this story is complete. And another story can be told. Perhaps a story that brings back the Time Lords or explores the idea of the Doctor as a father...something with Moffat and Matt. But the story of the Doctor losing everything...home, family, planet, purpose...and finding a new way to live and love...that is RTD's story. And I believe he needs to finish it properly.
It is hard for me to believe he's unaware of the Rose/Ten dynamic...when, in the book, he states that there is no way Rose will ever love Blue. She just won't. Which means...he needs a huge rewrite...and luckily...he was able to just walk around at the wrap party and ask everyone to come back.

Rae
wondering if that's why Planet of the Dead is so weak...if RTD was engaged in his rewrite of the 2009 Christmas Special.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

How about that...there is a theater not TOO far away that is carrying the NT live broadcast. We could maybe go there. They also carry opera. Hmmm!

Funny that you said the Two Towers was the most difficult book to get through in LotR...because I quit reading in the middle of that one. It just had one too many visits with the elves and I gave up.

My experience of the Hobbit, which my entire family adores, was that I couldn't get beyond page 80. I have tried many times to read it...but it bores me to tears. I have had the experience of reading something at another time in my life and finding it a rich and rewarding experience...but the Hobbit is not one of those books, for me.

Finally, yes, that's the thing I was saying about life/reality...what you said about the histories. Yes, everyone dies at the end...but they are content first. There is a deep poignancy evident in the Doctor's love for Rose...and it is laid out for us in all of this suffering they have done. She will die on him...and he will be alone again...traveling onward, meeting new people, turning to say something to her and finding she's not there. The pain and loss is still there...but...as you infer...the suffering is less, because they were, for a time, content. RTD has decided that because the Doctor must outlive people...he can never be content...or find a slight resting spot...but must instead, keep up this hollow charade of bouncing about from one empty relationship to the next.

Rae

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I've discoursed on the comedy/tragedy and parallels with Shakespeare several times on my own journal - my penultimate entry compares Children of Earth to King Lear.

I do not regard DW in its present state as deserving to be dignified by the description "tragedy." Ancient tragedies had characters who were powerless before the gods. DW has a god-figure who is himself powerless. Generalising massively, tragedies from the Renaissance onwards have concentrated on the flaw of character device - a potentially great central character who has the potential to be heroic but then makes a fatal miscalculation.

If you look at Hamlet, the conclusion is certainly tragic, but Hamlet himself has been on a journey and accepts his destiny with dignity and courage. Othello and Macbeth both come to recongise the terrible errors they have made and their tragic consequences. King Lear, the closest parallel to the RTD universe, still takes place within a reasonably coherent moral framework and at its darkest point, the death of Cordelia, Lear acknowledges, at least in part, some responsibility for his actions. In no case does the central character survive to continue the cycle of his mistakes without having learned anything from them. If there's one thing we take away from Shakespearian tragedy, it is that human beings have autonomy and they can change their world.

But this is quite absent from DW, which just batters the audience with loss after loss, and the characters seem to lose rather than gain stature from their sufferings. The Doctor is exactly where he was at the beginning, or worse. Unless what we are seeing is a separate universe which will be reset and turn out to be some kind of experimental simulation, we have to conclude that our hero is incapable of personal development and growth. That's not tragedy. It's melodrama. In the 1940's you could be locked up for spreading gloom and despondency. Not a bad idea.

It is all very melodramatic

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

But this is quite absent from DW, which just batters the audience with loss after loss, and the characters seem to lose rather than gain stature from their sufferings. The Doctor is exactly where he was at the beginning, or worse. Unless what we are seeing is a separate universe which will be reset and turn out to be some kind of experimental simulation, we have to conclude that our hero is incapable of personal development and growth. That's not tragedy. It's melodrama.

I keep thinking about the whole concept of the universal reset that is coming up over and over again. I cringe away from that solution, because it allows a writer to simply leave questions unanswered. There is little evidence that the story presented by RTD...and the Doctor...that there was a Time War and he did something very wrong...and the universe changed...is not a true story. We are only wanting a reset because the universe RTD has given us seems so unsustainable.

In other words, RTD has written his characters into a corner and we believe that the only way out of that corner is magic. To me, a reset doesn't answer any of our questions of character...it simply gives the Doctor and Jack a universal out that would be better addressed by their learning to grow or change.

Now, in the Doctor...we have some sign of development...because he is now rejecting any companion. This is unsustainable for the show...though I have heard geeks claiming it's the best idea EVA! But we see that Moffat is bringing back a full time companion. So, logically, assuming RTD is some kind of writer...that he can see some character issues...we must change the Doctor's mind about being alone. My worry is that we do it magically...as we have done in many other places in this narrative. We either bring the Time Lords back and they cure him of his despair...or we simply have him "discover" that gosh, darn it...he DOES make people happy with his god-like treatment of them.

Rae

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Here's a thoughtful, intelligent essay about CoE from a rather more gay perspective than my own:

http://xtricks.livejournal.com/96515.html?view=456707#t456707

And more message and meta stuff:

http://salienne.livejournal.com/264314.html?view=630138#t630138

Both worth a look. The disillusionment with RTD is growing apace.

Sorry, I don't know how to do links in comments.

Both of those posts were fantastic

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the links. I found myself nodding along with the Xtricks one. While I have never been one to jump on the bandwagon of the whole "RTD hates dead people" rants that circulate, I do feel that this must have been even more of the same for the gay community. They have a good reason to ask why their couple falls victim to such a senseless ending. And the reason...is to break Jack...so Jack will do something stupid in a loose plot. Just like with us...the reason the Doctor leaves Rose...is because the plot holes can't really be supported if everyone stays in character.

I am disillusioned...as I am expected to be...by RTD. He has communicated his worldview to me...as a writer should do. I cringe from what else he is going to say about MY favorite character, the Doctor, before he's done.

Rae