HUMPERDINCK! "I haven't seen them, yet, not with these eyes."

[rabid1st]

No Special Episode Spoilers in this post...or in comments, please.

I'm talking 'bout REGENERATION!

A lot of Ten2/Rose shippers come to me thinking that I must hate Ten 2 and want him to suffer, just because I don't believe in the Ten2/Rose love. It hurts them that I reject what they accept as "the only way to have a happy resolution for Rose's story."

"He's the SAME man," they tell me with mounting frustration at my stubborness. "He's TEN!"

And I stubbornly say, "No...he's THE DOCTOR!"

And I believe that he is.

I am completely convinced that Ten 2 is who he says he is in JE. "I AM the Doctor," he says when Donna tells him to wait for the Doctor. And of course, Ten would identify Eleven as "ME" the same way he identified Nine as "ME." And, indeed, the potential to fall in love with Rose Tyler may well be intrinsic to the Doctor's core personality. Given free will and opportunity*...love might be possible between Rose and Eleven, too. But anyone who has seen an old school multi-Doctor episode will tell you...recognizing himself doesn't help the Doctor get along with himself. Different versions of the Doctor see things in a different light. They each have their own views. Their own tastes. Look at the way they each dress. Look at the way they mock one another for the way they each dress.

Different eyes...see things differently. I am sure Six thought he looked very natty indeed in his clown coat. And Ten 2's eyes are very, very different at the moment. Ten 2 has human eyes and Eleven's mind. He's a chimera...a Time Lord brain in a human body. The Right and Proper Eleventh Doctor, along with his different tastes and views, was shunted into a handy spare hand...and then that hand grew into a TEN-LIKE body by tapping into Donna somehow, so now Eleven is trapped in something like a TEN-shaped prison. Yes, he might even biologically be adaptive to Rose...but still...it's not what suits him.

How do I know?

Well...I watched the celebration after the Earth is restored to its rightful place in space. Ten 2 does not turn to Rose for his hug. He turns to Sarah Jane. This is something Ten would never do...and doesn't do. Ten turns to Rose. We don't see the hug...but we do see him turn to Rose, as she turns to him. Also, we see the Doctor comfort Rose...when she believes Jack has died. He comforts her by holding her close. He does this in the Impossible Planet as well. Ten 2 offers Rose no such comfort as Ten leaves...nor at anytime on the beach while she is fighting to understand. He has to be prompted to offer her words of explanation, even. Donna says, "Tell her!" And Rose asks to hear the words he would have spoken on the beach. There is no indication that he FEELS anything except outrage that Ten, who made him, would now abandon him.

Ten 2 is definitely THE Doctor. He's the Eleventh Doctor. He's just been trapped in another man's life--Ten's life that he can never, ever live with Rose. And who wants a Doctor who says "never, ever"? Not me! I will always maintain that the impossble is possible. That there is a way to give everyone the life they want to lead. Give Eleven his body back...the Gallifreyan one. Give Ten the human body that will be able to live and die at Rose Tyler's side. Give Donna her memories back, with a reversal of the metacrisis. And give Rose her Doctor.

Oh, and give us...a healthy Eleven who is happy to go traveling across the galaxy picking up strays and showing them a better time than they would ordinarily have.

Rae
like a frakking broken record about this...but dang it..it IS possible.

*I feel that RTD and Ten might well have believed they were creating this opportunity...this is why I forgive them both. Assuming this current separation isn't all part of RTD's plan...which it could still be...then, in the gloom of their own individual sicknesses, RTD and TEN simply overlooked the "free will" part of the equation. Rose is not free to love again...because the man she loves is still out there, suffering. And Ten 2 is not free to make any decisions for himself...because he's trapped in Ten's fantasy life.

Comments

If only....

[susanb03.livejournal.com]

RTD sees it the same way.... He's too good at the red herrings though....

Re: If only....

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call it a red herring. Way too much of the fanbase expects Ten to just regenerate and be happy again because of that, no body-switching or Roses involved.

So by your argument, there's an INCREASED chance of this happening! :D

[purecreation.livejournal.com]

AMEN!

You keep me hoping Rae!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Glad to be of service. I only hope that you are not hoping fruitlessly!

Rae

Not quite a broken record

[nightbeast.livejournal.com]

You have slight undulation as to what should happen to Donna. If she should remember everything suddenly and die, then if her death is like Astrid's or if she will be absorbed into a Time Lord consciousness. If she should have the memories siphoned off (e.g with a fob watch) so she slowly remembers and comes to no harm.

The thing is, everyone suffers the way things are. Even the audience. No-one was given a choice on the matter while Ten 1 got his God complex on. There is a way for everyone to choose what they want and be happy.

Well, except Donna's mum, who is never happy about anything. ;)

Lisa
Really wishing I'd photographed the scribble creature's musings

Well...see...I'm not really attached to method...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...other than thinking, as I must as a writer, which method is most feasible within the canon. And you know where that leads me. But I don't really care HOW RTD does the exchange. It can be some sort of SciFi miracle declared and carried out by...

a) The Shadow Proclamation
b) Returning, Vengeful Time Lords
c) A newly discovered miracle cure
d) Just making it happen because that's what Metacrisis means
e) Fob Watch
f) The White Guardian Returning to set things right
g) Donna remembering all and taking charge
h) An accident of some kind with new equipment
i) The Bad Wolf plotting it all from S1 onward
j) Use of the psychograft
k) Having Donna become Ten 2's second heart.
l) Some other device RTD dreamed up after eating too much Thai take out and falling asleep on the sofa.

I simply believe in Switching Doctors so that Ten 2 is our Doctor going forward and Ten is allowed to go to Rose.

Re: Well...see...I'm not really attached to method...

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

This is why I heart your brain so damned much. You my friend are a true author.

Ponies for everyone!

Thank you for :heart:ing my brain

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

My brain is often a trial to me. But I really can't believe that if I could just sit down and rattle off ten ways to reverse what happened, RTD can't think of one or two as well. He's Russell T. Davies...we expect him to do the impossible! Let's hope he doesn't let us down.

Rae

Ideally, I suppose...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...I would like to save Donna. I would like to sort of use her as a bridge to switch Doctors...and on the trip across...have them clear her head of the burning. That way...when the regenerative energy clears...we will have Ten in the human body...Ten 2(Eleven) in his proper Gallifreyan body...and Donna with her memories but no burning sensation in her brain.

How that might be possible...what mechanism makes it happen...I am content to leave to the very capable RTD.

Rae

Re: Ideally, I suppose...

[susanb03.livejournal.com]

if he only will.... we can dream, huh?

Well, I think anything is currently still possible.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

This is why I am NOT furious at RTD, because I honestly can't believe he doesn't see the problems he's created for the character of the Doctor. And, indeed, in Planet of the Dead...RTD has the Doctor show us how wounded he is.

Lady Christina would have made a fine companion in the old days...as long as she toned down the sexual overtones of it all, but he rejects her. And it's not because of her criminal tendancies...which he would have tried to change...as he did Turlough's tendancies...but because HE can't risk being hurt again.

It is not a jump for us, then, to assume that is what motivated him to do what he did to Rose and Donna. He was trying to avoid being hurt again. He didn't want to stay and watch Rose die. He didn't want to have Donna burn away. So he ran from both things. And in running...he hurt the people he loved. So he needs to turn and face that...to be a true hero.

Rae

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree. I keep thinking about Ten II, stabilized by Donna's human, well-adjusted, wanderlusted psyche. Trying to live with Rose but thinking frequently, "Gee, I really miss the TARDIS." It might not even become that volatile at first because, hey, there's no way to GET to the TARDIS, and hopelessness breeds resignation, but it must be eating at him. Your point about him being the proper Eleven personality and outlook shunted over makes this even worse!

Then I look at Ten, who was separated from his ship this past episode and didn't spare a word for it, though I don't doubt he missed her. And I see and hear what he feels about living the day-to-day.

Rose is not free to love again...because the man she loves is still out there, suffering.

THIS THIS so much.

Put it all together...

Personally, I believe...that in that precise moment...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Ten 2 saw no other option but resignation to his fate. He is stuck in human form. If the only alternative was to kill Donna, he would see giving up as an "okay if you have no other options" sort of fate. I don't think he would be tortured by giving Rose a happy life and then dying. It is just not the life HE would have choosen.

Like he conveys, with that slight shrug, "I only have one life. I could spend it with you, if you want."

Rose then sees a possiblity, too, "We would grow old at the same time."

And he, with a sad little smile, says, "Together."

Yes, I do think Eleven, denied his own chance to live, would make the best of things and dedicate himself to tryin to make Rose happy...if that was what she wanted. But...what HE wants is never addressed.

And quite obviously a happy life with a doppleganger is NOT what she wants either. She wants HER Doctor...she says so several times. Then, she rips out of Ten 2's arms and runs after Ten as the TARDIS departs. She scowls and shifts her hips away from Ten 2 as he takes her hand. She is not content...she is sort of cheesed off.

Rae

Re: Personally, I believe...that in that precise moment...

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

Lol, that's definitely a "cheesed off" face. I was right there with her, though, "YOU BASTARD oh my god."

I can't really call Ten a bastard...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...because of all that Davros said to him just prior to this set of decisions...and because Rose DID kiss Ten 2. I think she kissed him to find out if he WAS the Doctor, though...not because she'd made up her mind. But it must have hurt Ten a bit...to believe she would rather have Ten 2...that he was the better man for Rose.

I think Ten cross a definite line somewhere in JE...and I believe it might have been when Donna is killed for the first time...or when everyone sort of turns to weapons of mass destruction to save him. He just feels he's not good for people anymore...and that's not true...and Rose and Donna need to help him see that.

Rae

Re: I can't really call Ten a bastard...

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

Well, I wouldn't call him a bastard NOW. But at that second I heard the vworping of the TARDIS, I was upset, lol.

[monkeybatz.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with everything you've been saying/writing since the beginning of the "broken doctor" period. I watched Planet of the Dead last night then afterwards read your reviews and theories on what is to come (which I am hoping for).

I fell asleep after finishing and had the best dream. Also a really dorky one depending on how you look at it. The 10th Doctor series came to an end and it was beautiful. Rose came back (again), the doctor stood bewildered and couldn't help but run to her. Throw his arms around her body for that passionate kiss. Along with your Princess Bride quotes rewritten for Doctor Who:

"Since the beginning of the Doctor's existence, he has experienced many kisses that were rated the most passionate, the most pure. This one left them all behind."

Just wanted to let you know how you inspire me!!

RTD actually mentions the kiss in his book...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...he says it is "all wrong." And he must be talking about the more passionate kiss...since THAT is the one he changed on us. And he is exactly right...the kiss we have in canon is all wrong.

Rose kisses him. She graps him by the collar the way so many other people have...and lays a kiss on him that we never truly see reciprocated. Then, she breaks out of that kiss to run toward the departing TARDIS.

The true kiss...is the kiss of true love...as you say, from The Princess Bride. It is the kiss that is like no other. This means the DOCTOR initiates it...and it is full of melting sweetness...and all else fades away. Neither the Doctor nor Rose would care that the TARDIS departed...they would be together...and that would be all that mattered to them. Which has always been the case with them...actually...whenever they are together. Look back at S2 and you will see that I'm correct.

Even to the destruction of creation...all that matters is Rose is coming back.

Rae