The Spike Strike

[rabid1st]

Dear Fellow Spike Fans;

As some of you know, I am staging a boycott of Angel this season. Many of my fellow fans have already stopped watching. But I didn't want my boycott to work against James. I wanted it to be an expression of my unhappiness over S/B. So I sent postcards to WB and Fox and Joss explaining my position and my intent to boycott at episode 8 (next week). I have instead decided to walk at episode 5.11. Without resorting to spoilers, I strongly suggest that would be a good time for every Spike fan (even those who no longer support S/B) to walk out with me. If you must see every Spike-centric episode (and believe me I do understand the compulsion), a 5.12 walk out will work, too.

What is the point of a walk out? Well, it's just like a strike of any other kind. It shows the powers that be where the power might be. Of course, if you are happy with our story so far, by all means, ignore me. But if indeed you ARE unhappy with what has been happening, I would suggest that you flex your fanbase muscle and join me for one or two episodes. Start watching again with 5.13 if you must but let the voice of your clicker be heard by the network.

Rae
who honestly believes an organized B/A fanbase was behind the (to me) horrid ending of BtVS.

Comments

[planetjess.livejournal.com]

I'm so relieved to find that I'm not the only one still saying that we were straight out screwed by the end of BtVS, and that this season of AtS is doing nothing to recompense for it. Phew! Not alone.

You are decidedly NOT alone, pet...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And the people who agree about the screwing are some of the most devoted and long term fans of Joss Whedon...myself...Nauti, Ally, Carrie...the list of disillusioned former devoted fans is astonishing. And you must add us to the huge numbers of fans of W/Tara and Anya and Cordelia.

Sisabet actually has the BEST stand...she, I think, always expected a downer ending on BtVS and with good reason.

It was true we should have looked at the track record of Mutant Enemy. Both AtS and BtVS are about misery. B/A and then W/Oz and W/Tara and finally Xander/Anya. You have to note the relentless pattern of disappointment. My only defense in believing it would end was well...it was the END of the SHOW and Buffy was the heroine of the SHOW. I knew via context that Joss intended to "set her free." I never imagined JW would end with no hope of recovering the goodwill of the fandom toward her character.

I feel Buffy was hosed and so was I...and I don't see why I should take that quietly.

Lord knows the B/A and W/T people didn't rollover and play dead like the Spuffy crowd did. When I hear people accepting it all and yet claiming to "still love S/B in their heart"...I think maybe neither WE nor Spike deserve to be treated well. Then I imagine the Spike in my head...he too is kicking over that ending. He doesn't give up on love that easily...and in his name, I write another note of protest to Joss.

Rae
who sees the ratings dropping and thinks JW does deserve the courtesy of an explanation for the loss of my viewership...he can still have my DVD buying dollars if he ends on an up note...and I bet neither SIS nor HARMONY would protest if Buffy DID love Spike.

Re: You are decidedly NOT alone, pet...

[planetjess.livejournal.com]

I never imagined JW would end with no hope of recovering the goodwill of the fandom toward her character.

Thank you. I've seen some posts recently where posters have very eloquently expressed their love of Buffy as a character. And I'm jealous of them. I wanted nothing more than to end that series loving all of the characters I had cherished over the years. I will always be a Spike fan first and foremost, but that took nothing away from how much I adored Willow, Buffy, Xander, Anya, Cordelia, Wes... Hell, I even like Angel. I never wanted a good ending for Spike and S/B in any way that would take away from any of those other characters; rather, while I was angriest at what happened to S/B, what I can't forgive is the totality of what was accomplished--the killing of Anya with little fanfare; the killing of Tara as a plot device; the character assassinations of Buffy, Willow and Xander. When I started watching the series, and through the college years, I adored each of them for different reasons. Then they grew up to be people I didn't recognize, and mostly either didn't care for or didn't care about. I love Buffy, but I love the Buffy that I think would have been if the character at the end had been at all a recognizable product of what had come before. Where did she go? She wasn't, to me, even present in "Chosen", or really for the last half of Season 7. Joss set some character who vaguely looked like Buffy "free" at the end of the series--free of the capacity to value great love, free of compassion, free of depth, free of the ability to be a great friend at the same time as a fierce warrior. Sure, Spike's ending was a moment of great heroism, but that just wasn't enough for me. Ungrateful for medium-sized favors? Maybe. But every episode of the series had been, at least partly, about heroism. Heroism was the least I expected, it was the least expected of all of them, and was made extraordinary over the course of five and a half years by their relationships with eachother, by who they were and how they loved eachother while acting as heroes. Stripping Spike's ending down to one act, no matter how selfless, didn't cut it for me. Acts were never the point.

I do watch AtS this year, but certainly not for Spike, who has thus far been, again, a character walking around in Spike's jacket, interposing Britishisms, some of them admittedly hilarious, and yet, at the core, having pretty much nothing to do with the Spike I'd invested in. There's no point for me in watching AtS for Spike, because it would just leave me more bitter and more disenchanted. I watch AtS for the same reason I watched S7 of BtVS--because I liked the show before this season, on its own merits, and I keep hoping against hope that it will reward me for that loyalty. How naive of me. Sure, I sometimes get a brief jolly out of a reference to an ME in-joke, or the actors will grab me for a few scenes. But I miss Cordelia, I don't care about all the tangential Wolfram & Hart characters, Wesley's entire affect makes no sense (as others have noted) after the mind-wipe, and if that were really Spike, still interested in redemption and working for the greater good? Eve would have been a snack by now.

Anyway, sorry for venting in your LJ. I'm just bitter bitter bitter, but I'm happy for those who are happy with this season, and don't feel comfortable spoiling their fun elsewhere.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

Without resorting to spoilers, I strongly suggest that would be a good time for every Spike fan (even those who no longer support S/B) to walk out with me.

Count me out. I love Angel the Series every bit as much as I loved Buffy - more, in some ways, since they're able to tackle more adult issues and explore more grey areas.

While I think the writers are still finding their groove where Spike's concerned, I'm totally sanguine about how his character stands within the larger context of this ensemble show.

I'm excited every Wednesday ("New ep! All right!"), and I've even warmed up to Fred. I'll be glued to the set for the rest of the season, myself. Especially next week. (Rowr! Dru, Spike, Angel and hot on-screen vampire sex and violence? I am so there. ::grin::)

And I liked the way BtVS ended, too. I thought it was a fittingly glorious end for Spike, and (deus ex machina axes aside), worked out well in a mytharc sense. ::shrug::

So...just heads up that my journal's gonna reflect my love affair with AtS. :)

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'm with Harmonyfb, but you knew that already *g*

I am absolutely ecstatic about Angel this year and I feel almost like all my fangirl wishes have come true. Unfortunately, not all of them as they still insist on keeping Angel clothed for most of the episodes. Pity, really. But oh, well - I think Spike is coming along just fine, I am excited about next weeks episode and without being spoiled I am so excited that the mindwipe is at least being addressed.

If Lilah and Lindsey would both come back, I would probably explode from happiness.

So I'm not only watching - I'm vocally proclaiming my joy.

And I still like Spike.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

If Lilah and Lindsey would both come back, I would probably explode from happiness.

I'm noncomittal on Lindsay, but I miss Lilah desperately. This Eve chick gets on my nerves.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I'm ignoring Eve. If you replace her presence with the mental equivalent of a cinder block it works out nicely. The Lilah-void is deep and wide.

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to mentally replace Eve with Lilah (cause so many of her lines sound like they were written for Lilah.) Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ::sigh:: SR, why, oh, why, won't you come back to the show?

I can whole heartedly get behind your Lilah loving...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...add me to the Eve haters. Lilah would have been much more compelling in the role of Angel temptress.

Rae

Yeppers, Sis...I do know your stand.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And like Harm...I am happy you are getting the show you want, Sis. BTW, I downloaded Cowboy this past weekend. Fan-damn-tastic Vid. My significant other HATES Joss (with a passion only known to those who are companions to people expressing a desire to sleep with a tv producer) and yet was enthralled by COWBOY. So that's very high praise. Though, in the words of my sweetie, "It's seductive. It pulls me in and I have to remind myself that REAL cowboys don't get laid that often. I think it's a lonely job with loads more cattle and also...campfire songs."

Plus, it may have given me some insight into your take on Angel. The vid made me happy with DB while presenting a radically differing view of Angel than the one I hold. And it does seem to me that you would be very pleased with the road I see the show going down. I only wish I could go on watching in good faith...because...I so wanted to write Wes/Angel...I mean...I REALLY want to fic them...but I know I would be the embittered Rabid...and lord knows we don't want THAT! ;-D

Rae

Re: Yeppers, Sis...I do know your stand.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Hey thanks for the kind words about "Cowboy" - yes, that is my Angel - absolutely - in that vid. That is the man I watch. I apparently have a thing for pimps.

See, the thing about cowboys though is that they always have other cowboys...

Glad to see you're enjoying yourself Harm...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...hope it works out for you. And let me say...I too support Angel the Series. I wanted nothing more than to transfer my complete devotion from BtVS to AtS. I was already a huge fan of AtS (I had watched it from the first episode...just like BtVS and Firefly) and I had planned to become a Wes/Angel slash writer and go happily along humming a Jossian tune. Sadly, that isn't an option anymore.

It is the hiring of James and the handling of Spike and Buffy and the, to me, horrid ending of BtVS that I object too. BTW, the storyline so far on AtS...is almost verbatim the one I laid out to my inner circle when I heard James had signed for AtS...this was waaaaay before CHOSEN aired...so pretty much the entire Season so far is going as I would have written it...with one MINOR B/S centered exception (Imagine my surprise when I first heard the Ghostly Spike spoilers....or just ask Ally or Mary about my reaction).

But no matter how closely JW's storyline is to what I would do...the PTB's have used expressions against me and my fandom that have brought me to this place of disenchantment. My boycott is the consequence of JW's decision to go on telling Spike's story without Buffy...I think it does the character no good and is, in fact, diminishing it more and more each day.

From a karmic stand point...I am glad Joss has someone like you in his corner, Harm...but I want him to know he no longer has me. And I want him to know why! To me the end I see out there on the horizon will be as pointless and unsatisfying as the end of BtVS was for me. Which...since you were happy with Chosen...is a good thing for you!

Rae

Re: Glad to see you're enjoying yourself Harm...

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

My boycott is the consequence of JW's decision to go on telling Spike's story without Buffy...I think it does the character no good and is, in fact, diminishing it more and more each day.


Ah. See, I couldn't be happier about that. Spike's out from underneath Buffy's crushing stiletto heel, and I'm thrilled. The ghost-thing? Welll...I understand why they're doing it (why else would he stick around LA?), so I don't have a problem buying into it. I'd long since soured on the B/S ship (Onscreen, anyway. I still think they're the sexiest thing going on paper.)

I'd like to have seen jennyo's take on his return, but I'm cool with what I'm seeing so far. Can't wait to see the Dru flashbacks. ::happy S/D shipper sigh::

Sorry you're not enjoying it, though. :(

Re: Glad to see you're enjoying yourself Harm...

[wickedprincess3.livejournal.com]

My boycott is the consequence of JW's decision to go on telling Spike's story without Buffy...I think it does the character no good and is, in fact, diminishing it more and more each day.
I'm coming through friendsfriends and well I've seen this a lot and well I don't understand really. By the end Spike seemed to have made peace with the fact that Buffy didn't love him; when he said "no you don't" that he was ready to leave that part behind. Does he still love her? Yes because well thats the Spike thing to do; but I don't really understand why having Spike without Buffy cheapens him. I happen to like him better but I'm in the minority on that one I suppose.

I wouldn't say you're in the minority...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...lots of people hate S/B now because, I think, of the way it went in S7...by that I mean Buffy turning out to be a...well...an immature and abusive and manipulative person. And being "at peace" isn't exactly...compelling is it?

I am holding out for B/S because every other alternative is unacceptable to me. And it is unacceptable because while I AM a fan of Spike I was a bigger fan of BtVS and the ending ruined S6 and S7 for me. And I am not the only one. I know people who are against the entire franchise now. Lots of people!

And well...Spike! Looking at the character...he made HUGE changes because of his love for Buffy. He stopped being EVIL...while he WAS evil. How unbelievable is that!!

This isn't the kind of love that goes away. This isn't a stepping stone. This is that once in a lifetime...MYTHICAL LOVE! You can't just wave a wand and make me believe that he will EVER love like that again. Fred or Harmony or Angel...or some other person, I won't believe it.

What happened with Spike wasn't a SMALL or TEMPORARY thing. It should linger in the mind...he was a modern day Orpheus. He overcame his heroic obstacle. He went to hell and back for his love. He wasn't like Riley or Angel or Xander or any other man in Buffy's life.

I can't accept that Buffy doesn't love him...just because...Joss says so...storylines have intrinsic patterns...he could have written that story but he DIDN'T...he let us have TOUCHED and he made Buffy Spike's champion...right to the end. You can't just change horses in the final hour and fifteen minutes. You can't say...the story is over...Spike is a hero...but Buffy doesn't love him...but expect everyone to go on loving Buffy. It's a cheap and unbelievable plot twist.

And it's not going to work for the majority of the audience.

So it boils down to my personal philosophy about human beings and about storytelling.

Rae

Re: I wouldn't say you're in the minority...

[wickedprincess3.livejournal.com]

...lots of people hate S/B now because, I think, of the way it went in S7..
Spike/Dru shipper myself *g* I liked the darker aspects of S/B but the great romance (for me!) was Spike/Dru.

I suppose it's a difference in character interpretation and preference. I like my Spike evil more than I do redeemed. I do agree that his changes are huge and certainly not a temporary thing. I do think he'll continue to act heroically and internalize his own moral code.

I really hope you didn't take this as me attacking you/redemptionistaness/Spuffy. It's just a sentiment I've been seeing *a lot* and was curious about the why of it. I do understand where you're coming from now; even if not so much agreeing with it :)

OH, NO...not feeling attacked...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...actually fretting over my response to you...as I didn't really want to get into the WHY of why I have this stand. To me...it is beyond juvenile to jump all over someone for liking or not liking a particular story. I mean...that's why there are so many DIFFERENT storylines. The craft of a story is a problem though with Joss Whedon. S7 BtVS was not pro-S/Dru for example. Though it could have been.

BTW, are you reading Rain on Dust? Blatant plug for my S/Dru story...find it at

http://www.geocities.com/rabid1st/fanfiction.html

Though it is technically S/B but there is loads of Dru in it...and the Rain Spike gets to be very evil and yet totally devoted to Dru.

Also, if it is any balm to you...I do feel the only option open to Joss now is to bring Dru back for Spike. If there was a way to take her madness and tube it like Lorne's sleep for example...it could work. But I do worry that Dru doesn't REALLY love Spike...she is daddy's little girl it seems to me.

Rae

Re: I wouldn't say you're in the minority...

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

To this I would add, since Rabid and I are of similar minds on this, that it redeems Buffy if she does love Spike. If she doesn't, we're left with a heroine who was a visionary in terms of the fight against evil, but didn't behave with integrity in her personal life at the end of our time with her. (i.e., I want her to have been telling the truth when she told Spike she loved him, even if it was a realization she came to that minute).

Right up until the end of EoD, I was really liking Buffy, although her "you're my strength" to Xander did mystify her. (Not to be picky, but didn't he just go along with kicking her out of her own house?) I do understand that, though, since I feel that the writers in the last two eps had to undo a lot of stuff in a hurry in order to end the series on a positive note. I can fanwank away the B/A kiss after the S/B kitchen scene, but the only way I can do it that leaves Buffy looking like a good person (and despite my statements on some of her behavior, I really want her to be a good person, and believed she could be), is if she loved Spike.

The treatment of S/B isn't necessarily my issue with Spike on AtS, though... I just looked at that guy who looks a lot like Spike, and wonder whether anybody on AtS's writing staff has seen the last three seasons of Buffy. So I mostly stopped watching, although some people *pointed look at Rabid* keep sucking me back in with spoilers and discussion.

caia

See? That's the kind of BAD Joss hating fan I am...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...I make people watch that have NO INTENTION of watching. I am working on Carrie too...who stopped like Caia after being ROYALLY pissed after CHOSEN. I work in a library and through constantly recommending BtVS and purchasing the tapes and books and leading discussions on the show...I converted a good 200 people to Buffy and Angel in the last 7 years. And then there was my fic...which gets a bit of readership.

But...I cannot support what I consider inferior storytelling. And by that I mean...storytelling that takes a sharp left turn after what amounts to six years. The B/S storyline started in Season 2...and lasted to S7...that isn't an insignificant part of the whole. At anytime in Season 7, JW could have backed off S/B...he had the PERFECT excuse (the Attempted Rape)...and he had underused characters to boot. Xander or Willow or Dawn or Giles could have championed Spike instead of Buffy. We would have easily forgiven her for being skittish...she had a great excuse.

Buffy could have been talked around eventually...to tolerate Spike because they needed him and finally forgive him because he really HAD changed. And Spike could have died...and accepted the lack of love...and gone on to someone on ANGEL. But that ISN'T the story JOSS told. Moreover I don't think Joss ever had ANY intention of telling that story before SMG said she was leaving. In S7 Joss told us about a person with deep confused feeling for the person who nearly raped her...feelings so strong they allowed her to overlook his killing spree...something she didn't overlook for Anya or Angel. Feelings that filled her heart and made her a stronger and better person. She believed in him when she had no reason to do so...and they juxtaposed that belief with her stuggle to assert herself with the rest of the gang. S/B were growing CLOSER not futher apart. SO WHAT FEELINGS COULD SHE HAVE HAD FOR HIM BESIDES LOVE? Seriously! Is there anyone who watched all seven season that would have been SHOCKED to learn that Buffy loved Spike if the show ended with TOUCHED?

Rae
a storyteller with a serious...THEY STOLE MY VID-CLIPS SIZE chip on her shoulder about lame, last minute, James will give Angel a Ratings Boost and keep it from being cancelled plot twists that invalidate years of my show.

just to play devil's advocate for a minute...

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

I always thought it was pretty clear that Spike bore pretty much no blame for killing under the influence of the First, because he was so far out of control that he didn't even remember. It's possible the First was able to get to him by making him forget (his kills, his mother), although I was never clear on how it brainwashed him at all.

Not that this invalidates Giles' or Dawn's trepidation at having him around, because good intentions count for jack if a person literally has no control. Still, one could argue that Anya's murder of the frat boys was different, even as Andrew's murder of Jonathan was different, in that while pressure may have been exerted on them to kill, they still made that choice themselves.

But yeah, I do agree with you about the direction the story went in S7. Over and over she put her faith in him – the chip, the trigger, Touched, the amulet. In retrospect, I feel like some of her defense of Spike to Giles could have been rooted in remorse – "he can be a good man, but he's never gonna get there if we don't give him a chance." Spike had been saying since S5 that he could be good, even if he didn't have any idea what that meant. I'm not saying she should have believed him back in "Crush." But once she knew he chose a soul – and did the Scoobies even know he got a soul on purpose? – all her rhetoric about how he was nothing, and dead, and evil, even if it was aimed at herself in "Dead Things", could have come back to haunt her.

I, of course, loathed the AR beyond coherent speech, and I didn't think they could or even should ever put Buffy and Spike together after that. But they changed my mind in S7. I have this persistent problem with ME it seems – I wasn't even a S/B partisan until early S6. They made me believe in that ship, with her confiding in him, his devotion to her, their incredible chemistry. And I spent much of the second half of the season wondering if I was being punished for buying what they'd been selling, (that Spike could love and Buffy was drawn to him as a person), even before the AR, when I became convinced of it. In S7, it happened again, only this time they dismissed more than 10 or so episodes.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

caia

Actually...YES...EoD not TOUCHED...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...if the show had ended halfway through EoD people would have said Buffy loved Spike. That "you don't have to be afraid" tact she took was beyond cruel if she didn't love him...or believe she was falling in love with him...because there was no way she DIDN'T know how he felt about her.

So, yeah...it is unacceptable to me...in the end...that Buffy doesn't love Spike.

And Harmony...while you were over S/B on the show...consider...would you really have NOT watched Angel...if Buffy had committed to Spike before he died?

The most compelling argument I have for my stand is: My storyline leads to more people happily watching Angel right now, than JW's storyline! An S/B ending would have alienated hardline B/A shippers...but even they would have gone on if there was a slim chance Angel could eventually win out...like say...if Spike was dead and haunting Angel.

Rae

[missatralissa.livejournal.com]

*pulls out picket sign and stands next to rabid*

I'm with ya!!! So do we get to blow stuff up? Wha? This is a peaceful protest... okay.

*starts to sing*

Look for the union lable...

What? Okay I'll just sit here quietly. I'll watch some Buffy dvds while Angel is on! The real Spike!

Yeppers...and the REAL Xander and Willow...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...and the REAL BUFFY. She was a hero and an endearing and compassionate person and she was capable of love.

And to me...she will remain that person. Buffy is not the battered shell of humanity she became from As You Were onward.

Rae