Humperdinck, Humperdinck, Humperdinck

[rabid1st]

A bit to know about the Doctor Who specials...I was right...they are counting the two Christmas Specials as part of the 4...so this one coming up...and then the one at Christmas in 2009. There will be one at Easter, following this Christmas one...and one more, as yet unscheduled.

Those of you following my recent "new view of things"...will find this all very interesting.

Or maybe not. But I find it interesting indeed that Easter is a holiday with strong Christian symbolism of rebirth.

Also, I know...I've become the most boring person on Earth...but I have a few things I want to say about the Humperdinck...and I think I will say them in a Humperdinck series...so you either don't have so much to read at a sitting...or...so you can completely ignore me until my brain chemistry is realigned and I calm the heck down...whichever! :grin:

Rae

Comments

[joools.livejournal.com]

I'm just impressed you can spell Humperdinck consistently. :-D

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I can also wiggle my ears.

:wiggle:

Rae
who admits to having troubles with Westley as a name, however. That T that stands for Trouble...or maybe Pool...is what gets me.

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

Humperdinck Humperdinck Humperdinck

What? What? What? *is confoozled*

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

The word refers to a plot twist that changes the nature of a show or book or movie or whatever...without making it "jump the shark." It isn't the same as "being Jossed" it is instead...being fooled into thinking you know what's going on when you don't.

In the book and movie Princess Bride...there is a scene where Westley, the hero...dies. And the narrator says the heroine marries Prince Humperdinck. The audience then goes..."Wait, Wait, that's not right...Buttercup is supposed to marry Westley." And the narrator says, "Who's telling this story...you or me?"

To get the Humperdinck is to think that you know where a story is going...when you don't.

Rae

Or rather...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...it is about that weird feeling you get when you are forced to adjust your understanding of where a story is going and you go..."What...? No, wait..."

Rae

Re: Or rather...

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's actually pretty darn cool. I love it when that happens, don't you? And now it has a name! Thanks! *bounces*

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

You know with this gap, RTD could've easily gotten away with having a happier ending with the Doctor and Rose. At the end of Journey's End, you have 10.2 taking over while the Doctor makes Time babies with Rose. Fade to black. End of story. You can have random specials all you want afterward.

So how in the hell do they plan on dragging in an audience? Will they continue the story or will they assume the taco meat smelling fan boys will tune in by the millions, because they think Rose gone? Are we going to get our poney or is this really telling us that we're getting socks?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Pony!!!

I don't know the how...I mean...I know the how I would use...I know exactly what I would do...but...

RTD will go bigger than me...we know that...he already has, of course...by 5 months....and I am so tired at this point that I'm thinking about not tuning in for anything else...and his American audience is lost to him...because they won't be able to sell those specials after this...so...really...unless he has something else to pitch...this is it for New Who.

I hope he has something else to pitch...so we, and the other audience, buys it all in 2010. And THAT is the thing...if he changed 10 to 10.2...and comes back...then...people are going to tune in...just to see something new...but if I'm wrong...stick a fork into it.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

I always wondered how this show worked. You actually have really old fans that have been with it since 1963. Its odd to me. I like having a storyline and having characters I shouldn't be afraid of getting attached to. The only characters Moffat will continue is whomever is in TW and thats if they swing the series back after their 5 specials. However, if I was clever, I'd be telling the Doctor's story through TW as well. In a way he's done this. Its where we first saw the hand. One season ended with Jack running towards the sound of the Tardis. SO I guess what I'm saying is, there is a possiblity of a cross over here. Thats what I'd do, even if it was just to save the TW series.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Here's the thing...we should have a set up for S5...in our specials...one way of doing it would be to link the DW and TW more closely.

If 10 has to get back to the alternative universe...the BEST way to do it...is to go to JACK and his magic rift machine. Mickey can confirm what Wilf confirms for us.

See...if we are going to reverse things...we need confirmation that the Doctor has done wrong.

Wilf can confirm that Donna told him it didn't matter if she died traveling with the Doctor because he life was so much better out there in the stars. And Mickey can confirm that all Rose Tyler ever thought about was getting back to the Doctor and keeping him safe...and she never once thought of a home and babies and shagging....all of which Mickey would have given her.

Also...really...Mickey and Jack can slap Ten...for being a jerk...and finally...Jack's hidden purpose could come into play...because he has a connection to Rose...and almost limitless Rift power...so...the Doctor might be able to contact Rose via Jack...as a spiritguide of sorts.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

Maybe thats why Jack keeps coming back to the Doctor. Maybe he knows he has a purpose but its connected to the Doctor, he just doesn't know what yet.Maybe this is it.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I think it is...I do honestly think...all of new who has been about changing the Doctor fundamentally...tying him closer in to Earth and making the Valeyard and the half-human on his mother's side...and that kiss in the movie...and the prediction of the Doctor going bad...and Gallifrey being destroyed...all of it...

I think RTD...was like me...only more so...all those years...worrying away at the puzzle...only he got the job and he's making it fit. Because he OPENS New Who with the Valeyard's prophecy being true.

Yes...and Rose creates Jack there, too. Jack keeps checking in...even if he's the face of Boe...he keeps checking on Ten...to see that he's still okay. And it is through Boe that we first refer to the Doctor as a god? Then River...was all...Donna Noble! Did she know what was to come...did Ten share that...that he has a woman with no memories and a doppleganger somehwere? Seems very odd...this way...doesn't it?

Rae

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

And the show worked because it used to be a good time for all...the companions weren't pining for love over him...and he wasn't in need of anyone to hold his hand or stop him...he wasn't sad or broken...he was a strong, bright, fun-loving guy...who even in the middle of tragedy...was like...10.2 is in the finale...notice how he is looking at the screen with his chin in his hand...sort of comtemplating...and when he hears the bad news about Bad Wolf Bay...he looks very upset...but he doesn't rave like 10. Even when he kills the Daleks...he's fairly calm about it all.

Rae

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

Even when he kills the Daleks...he's fairly calm about it all.

Very like Seven and some other classic Doctors in that sense, methinks, in that there was a job to do, a grim dirty job, but it had to be done, because the Daleks were Wrong and the prophecy must be fulfilled.

Ten ends up exhibiting a lot of self-hate when he berates his other self when he does this. It's like looking into an inner monologue that he must have held in his head countless times.

Like I said elsewhere, 10.2 seems like Ten without the BS tacked on.. and by BS, I mean the lonely god, angsty, I-know-best-because-I'm-clever superiority. He thinks he's better than 10.2 and calls him broken, but I have to wonder which one really is the most broken of the two.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Right! If I am correct...and this is all a Humperdinck...then it makes perfect sense for 10 to lash out at a copy of himself...and say he needs to be locked away with Rose. It is classic transference. And 10.2 and Rose certainly look like they are going "Okay...NOW what?" as broken 10 motors off thinking he's fixed everything.

Rae

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

Rae, I think it's safe to say that while I belong to an actual Who community, I am not hanging there for comfort. I am hanging here. This IS my Who community in which we will sort this all out amongst ourselves with you as our fearless thought leader who can outthink RTD in your sleep and we shall be comforted and have other than socks for Christmas in 2009. Maybe.

[momdaegmorgan.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to tell you...
Even though I swore to myself I would not read your ramblings and speculations (because someone told me you give plausible reasons why Rose just might be coming back), I did. And though some of it was a bit depressing (I really don't want socks for Christmas either), you brought me some small amount of renewed hope. Unlike most other posts about what could happen during the show, yours are always so...intuitive. There's something right about your thought process, not because I want it to be, but because it just is.
So here's to all of us getting ponies for Christmas and, for all of those fans out there that want only the doom and gloom (no Rose, Donna with no memories, no happiness for our lonely God), socks!

*Adds a little DW request to her wish list for Santa*

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yes...normally I want everyone to get a pony...but I've had so many socks over my lifetime...and I think the unimaginative would make socks out of the pony anyway...so just once...I would like to see the unimaginative people get the socks!

And thank you so very much for taking a chance on my ramblings...I know I was sort of venting the grief there for a bit...but I'm saying...really...things don't add up the way we, the audience, would usually look at things. And I too think I am onto something...because...the thing that made me open my eyes...was when I didn't look at what happened to Rose. I noticed people were pretty dismissive of one thing or another...actually...pretty dismissive of a lot...but when you look somewhere with no emotion attached...you can see clearer. So...I looked at Donna...and suddenly...I could see how it all was wrong...not just my heart's desire...but all of it.

Rae

clarification

[susanb03.livejournal.com]

Where did you find this info about the four specials including Christmas specials?

Just curious where you found this out?

Susan

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I can never remember...but this was a good source...I think the BBC news...telling us not to give up hope on the Doctor just yet.

Rae

Re: clarification

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

It was in an interview with JG...linked off of Outpost Gallifrey.

And I was just passing it on as it meshed with what I was thinking about the specials. And...dang it...I want them to be true bridges from Old Who to New Who.

Rae

[nightbeast.livejournal.com]

The UK is stil dictated by Christian holidays because we can't be bothered to change it into a multi-cultural one. I mean, picture it. The agnostics get to pick when they get paid to be off work by choosing from any religion they lean towards at the time, and the atheists get no paid holidays at all...

But I digress. Christmas and Easter are when the kids are off school for a fortnight. It guarantees eyes glued to the TV without parents nagging to do their homework, and a lot of places are closed so there is nothing to do but sit and watch TV. The other special should fall into the six weeks kids get off school in summer, but not the industrial fortnight where everyone is being a tourist and not at home watching TV. Pick a bank holiday weekend over summer when shops are closed and that's probably when the episode will air.

Religious holidays = TV = money

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yeah...there's one in May...and I was thinking you must have something in February. So Easter is it. I just thought it was a nice place to have that storyline develop. But I'm back to being depressed about it all again. I rewatched Left Turn and thought about how Donna was upset about being special because of that "thing on her back" and how I can see someone saying the Time Lord in her head was also just a thing on her back...that made her temporarily special.

So she isn't intrinsically special at all...and if we set her into her normal life...then she could be. Just as the Doctor could be having his long lamented "normal life" now via his doppleganger. And Rose could be free to settle now that she has a Doctor to look out after and love...someone who needs her.

And all that any of this has to make it happen...is for RTD to have just USED the elements in his story rather than approached them with forethought. And he only has to have enjoyed planting seeds for fanfiction to make us all happy...so now we have lots of things to fic...and he can press on to Gallifrey now that the Doctor knows it is possible. I think I don't know what will happen and that bugs me...because I also feel that we could be getting nothing else out of this series now but socks.

Rae

[nightbeast.livejournal.com]

We do have something in February... pancake day or Shrove Tuesday/Ash Wednesday. The kids get a week off school, but the schools have more flexibility as to when that week is. With the two weeks off at Easter and Christmas, there's bound to be some overlap if schools have different two weeks off to ensure good TV figures.

Remember the strop RTD had about Doctor Who going out before 7pm because he thought the ratings would suffer? It suggests RTD isn't in control of when Who airs.

If you want a pony, would you like me to make you an icon of the Doctor riding Arthur through the mirror captioned HUMPERDINCK! ? I can even insert some stockings hanging on the fireplace for the reality check. ;)

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

No...that's okay...I'll take my idealist icon and hugs it, though. You can spread the humperdinck word if you want though via said icon. I've never been in love with that horse moment. I do like his "I let you keep Mickey" with it though.

Oh...and touching again on your idea about Brown moving away from Rose after his soul is revealed as a dark one full of fire. I think the images show the involuntary direction of his hearts...like the smile and nudge over Gwen. And then at 47.47 if you pause the frame...you will see him turn to Rose and she turns to him. Blue is looking away from Rose, up at the TARDIS rotor. He clearly hugs Sarah Jane...we don't see what is going on but I feel Brown hugged Rose...Blue never does...which is very odd. Brown then comes back to take Rose away from Martha, just before Donna takes Jack from Sarah Jane. Also, when everyone is flying...Donna and Ten are the ones doing the parental approval thing...circling and then settling back to grin at one another. They look like appropriately doting parents...proud to see the humans and Time Lords working as one unit.

Rae

[nightbeast.livejournal.com]

But I'm back to being depressed about it all again.

I have a spoiler about the Christmas special that may give you hope. I know what you're like about spoilers, so I thought I'd give you a glimmer of hope instead of telling you the spoiler. And no, the spoiler isn't real snow. :P It's a comment about the Doctor's behaviour.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Dark and Valeyard like? Or just continuing to be mopey. Personally, I want him to discover that HE is now the energy between the regenerations. And do you know what...?

In order to make him 11 and not 10...all we need to is lose a regeneration in the wars...but never mind...

I hope that he comes back...because I've been thinking...about Mickey, Jack and Martha at Torchwood. Jack has a connection to the TARDIS...or the Bad Wolf power...Mickey has a connection to Rose...and there's the rift...and Martha knows about the Watch to store the Doctor's essence.

Plus, all three of those people know for sure that the Doctor loves Rose and Mickey knows she's been lost without him for so long. Mickey is the one...after all...who could see that they loved one another even when they weren't admitting it. Martha knows the Doctor was lost and alone without Rose and she could see that Donna was a good friend of his.

So...it could be that when Ten finds out what he's become he goes to Torchwood for help. All of that would be shot indoors at Torchwood...so no real need to have any of it out in the open. Then, we could settle up for Rose and Ten and 10.2 could go return Donna's memories to her safely...maybe she wouldn't even have to die...since he is her twin in a way.

I just sort of hope we solve it at Christmas...much as I love the Valeyard...I don't want to see him have a year long arc again...I want him stopped so the Doctor can go on with hope. It could even turn out that the whole 13 regenerations has to do with the poison built up in 10's mind...and 10.2 is cleansed of that now.

Rae