DW S4 Episode 11...ratings

[rabid1st]

Surprisingly, the ratings were down a bit...still remaining in the same 7.0 range. In fact, it was exactly 7.0...down from the 7.3 of last week. Also, down from the 7.3 of Utopia. I had expected about an 8 on this one as I had hoped it would get a Rose Tyler bump...but it didn't. It is back in the top 10, I think. But it seems that the Rose fans didn't show up...or we are already here. I am here, that's for sure. :->

And I know that the people online who were boycotting are still boycotting. But I had hoped for a Rose-Bump.

Rae

Comments

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Hm... that is odd but I'm sure next week the ratings will bump just because its the set up for the end of the season and the potential for Rose/Doctor interaction is more likely. (Although I definitely am not holding my breath for in-person interaction...)

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I do think we will get very close to it next week...but I'm not sure we will get the kiss until the very end. To me...the end is the kiss moment...before the fade to black. Unless we are going to have a cliffhanger to Christmas. Please, no!

Or please not THAT cliffhanger...because I'm ready for a rest. And I think these ratings are reflective of most people being ready for a rest...not willing to go through the pain again until they see some light ahead of us.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

Too many cliffhangers hurt the X-files.(great show, don't hurt me)

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

No...I completely agree. It feels like we should have our finale here. And then have a good cheery Christmas episode again. Even if there are bad monsters taking over the world....we should have some happy times with our new relaxed Doctor.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Silence your mouth. I know that you are unspoiled but considering how highly I value your speculations I think I might be inconsolable if you say there is going to be a kiss and there isn't one. :|

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Okay...then there is a kiss...there is...next week even. I will click my heels together three times and turn around twice to make it happen.

There! A quick peck of a kiss next week. But the real serious one...at the happy ending. After he says..."Oh, that reminds me. Since it's my first chance to say it...Rose Tyler, I love you."

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Dirty pool woman. Seriously dirty pool. So if my heart gets shattered I will come here and expect you to fix it. *arches brow*

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I am standing by with duct tape, but hopefully I won't need it. Because if your heart gets shattered...imagine the state mine will be in. Honestly, I think the level of my disappointment in RTD would be off the charts.

I tend to think of him as a person who really gets storytelling and the wonder of amazing and delighting an audience. That's like...what I do. It's my calling in life. And I don't think RTD could, and he really doesn't seem to, be doing any of this at random. His story has a thought process behind it...it is going somewhere. Whenever I've heard him speak...he talks like me...he talks about the little lines he drops in and the way an idea grows out of something like graffetti and how important it is to have integrity in your work, so that the audience trusts you. He really seems to think about making the audience remember this show.

And that's what storytelling is all about...as a writer...you want to create something that really gets inside your audience. OR...that's what I want as a storyteller. Admittedly many other well known writers don't seem to care about that. But I think the reader has to want to come back...the audience...they have to tell their kids to come, too. And you can't do that by giving them something you just slapped together. Nor can you do it by disappointing them over and over again. And by disappointing them...I mean...not following through on your promises. A story doesn't have to end happily to follow through on its promises...take Gone With The Wind...a happy-ever-after ending to that story would be NOT following through on the promises. I just think RTD has been promising us a happy ending for Rose and her Doctor. Like Billie said, the quest they are both on to find each other makes is a love story...and love stories like theirs...epic love stories where "they keep trying to separate us, but they never ever will"...disappoint if they don't end happily.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

If I'm shattered I'm sure you'd be catatonic but still, I'd demand you'd wake up and fix it. ;) As for Mr. RTD, I agree that he appears to be trust worthy in regards to fulfilling his obligations for this story. He doesn't come across as evil and wanting to torture fans but instead to tell an honest and beloved story so the obvious conclusion would be a true resolution of the Doctor and Rose storyline with all of the cards laid out on the table. Speaking from personal experience however, I've been burned numerous times by situations that would seem like a safe bet only to have the couples butchered for the sake of supposed "good television" *cough*RoswellBSGRobinHood*cough* and so I'm a little traumatized and everything in the Who-verse canon would argue that a strong, satisfying romantic conclusion of Doctor/Rose would not be the safest bet and its pushing me towards a nervous break down. Haha.

As for the boycotting Rose people. I distinctly recall boycotting after CE left but you convinced me to give DT a shot and I did which I'm glad I did. Then I categorically refused to watch the show until it was officially announced that Billie was returning and I stayed true to that and only got caught up after that announcement last year so I don't really understand why Rose people are still boycotting just because they fear the outcome. They should still be supporting Rose by watching her episodes so that her presence impacts the ratings and TPTB opinion of the character.

Carrie

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Check out my latest RATINGS post...turns out they didn't boycott afterall...I was figuring it wrong. In fact, we picked up viewership...or showed the the population at large is now invested in the storyline and unable to leave it.

And...boy do I hear you on continual disappointment...I've always been burned...even Babylon 5 and X-Files sort of went south when the shows tried to carry on without main characters. Only RTD to date has been able to carry on a story without a main character on screen...and still have that character be part of the show. And currently...my only worry is that he is apparently going to go with his original ending...the one he concieved at the beginning of the show...so...was that to make Rose the first Human Time Lord? I think it was. Will he stick with that now that he's made the Doctor suffer so much...maybe he will adjust it just a little and have Donna take the role now.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I already commented over there but just wanted to say, please RTD better not make Rose a Time Lord. As fantastically made of win as that would be as a story arc, my shipper heart would be crushed and I adore Donna. Make Donna a Time Lord if he's going to make anyone other than the Doctor one.

Carrie

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I saw your comment pop up after I sent my comment and now I'm commenting on this comment after I commented on the last comment of yours...whew! We should IM.

But yes...I think that it is possible RTD had to adjust some of his original story ending plans. If I had to guess...I would think he started out with a simple idea...what if he could tie the Doctor more closely to Earth? What if he could make the companion role more important so that the show was a real two-hander show for a modern age? Because the very idea that the companion is nothing more than sexual window dressing is very 1960's, isn't it?

So...he comes up with the idea of the Doctor falling in love with a companion and elevating her to Time Lord status. This was sort of danced around in the book canon with Ace and Bernice Summerfield. So, all he was really doing was making those concepts canon. But then...he lost Chris...and knew he would be losing Billie and the show was a huge hit...so he had to go on writing show.

So he edges us through some other companions...using Martha and Donna and Astrid to illustrate the Doctor's devotion to Rose. Waiting until he, RTD was ready to retire and do something else...with the sure knowledge that Billie would come back...and like RTD said in his talk with David...he was going to have her back if only to do one scene at the end of it all.

And I have to ask...what would that scene BE? Rose as the Time Lady, Bad Wolf, saving the day? Or the Doctor and Rose hand in hand walking away along the beach? I think that one scene would be the one I wrote after Doomsday aired...the beach scene. And I still think that's where we are going. Even if the odds against anyone in television writing getting something so very right after 4 years of episodes...are really long.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Again the logic makes perfect sense and when RTD said he'd be happy just have her back for one scene even it definitely made the conclusion of the Doctor and Rose storyline much more likely to be in regards to their personal relationship because it would be nearly impossible to set up such a scene to deliver Rose Tyler, Time Lord without the fans hitting the roof. But considering the relationship of the Doctor and Rose has been drawn out and always mentioned and part of the story since day one, the difficulty in setting up such a pivotal scene between the two as a conclusion would be minimal.

And yes, we should IM. :) I can only keep straight the comments because I get notifications in my gmail.

Carrie

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

So...are you Yahoo or AIM?

I am Rabid1st on Yahoo

But I am raeandjan on AIM

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Trillian but it'll be through yahoo which will be cpromise2000. :)

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Oh...and I totally agree that a happy Rose/Doctor life together is not what is expected in Doctor Who. But then, I have to say...RTD seems to delight in giving the old school fans a shock to our system.

He hates the "expected scenario" as much as me, I think. Which is NOT to say we hate doing what we said we would do...in the text of our work. Unexpected twists aren't twists out of the blue that nobody could possibly see coming from your text...they are simply thing that surprise and delight and make the reader/audience slap their foreheads and go...OMG! YAY! Unexpected twists should pull everything together into a rewarding conclusion.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Precisely. Conclusions shouldn't be from nowhere, they should be from everywhere in the story being tied together. I'm totally for surprises and twists as long as its obvious that the storyteller planned for the twists in some way before they were added. Again, not that storytellers can't stumble upon and find happy accidents and surprises in their own story, just none of that M. Knight Shamalan BS of "oh people found out the ending, well then I'm going to reshoot it and change the whole ending while keeping the rest. That'll show them."

Carrie

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Right! I have made changes to my storyline. But when I do...I always make sure I can support the change. I don't ever go back and rewrite my story because I know where I'm going. Sometimes I lose heart though and can't go on...because I feel that the canon is PART of my story. And really...I don't change THAT much even from my outline of where I am going.

Like when Donna was cast...I changed that kiss scene where Rose possesses Martha to Donna...and it worked so much better with Donna, too. The real thing that made me freeze up for months on Disheveled that time...was that kissing Martha would lead to all sorts of hurt and bickering...if I kept the canon as part of my story...and that scene needed to be a scene about Rose and the Doctor.

Donna, bless her, is able to stand aside and be a woman about his loving Rose Tyler. She isn't going to take it personally...except that she doesn't want him doing anything "kinky and alien" with her body. And I can't blame her for that. :grin:

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

Yeah using Martha would have totally opened a whole nother can of worms and not worked in the same context as Donna. That's why I love your stories so much because they stay true to the characters even if they're in completely different situations from canon. :)

[tazza-di-jo.livejournal.com]

Boycotting? WHO'S BOYCOTTING? AND WHY?
*feels out of the loop*

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'm curious as well.Don't tell me its those goofy anti-Rose-so-called-who-fans.I get so sick of that. The Doctor needs to get laid, get over it.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Actually, the boycott is the Rose people...not the anti-Rose people. There is a faction of the fandom that simply didn't recover from Doomsday. They believe we are going to have nothing but ashes left in our mouths in two weeks. They believe RTD is masochistic and they couldn't bear to just watch him torture the Doctor week after week and then crush him in the end.

I keep trying to talk them into watching...but they are waiting until it is over...and say they will buy the DVD. I had hoped they would be back for the finale though...there are...by my estimate...about 1.3 Billie/Rose only fans out there...that are in this group. I was expecting that sort of bump...but we didn't get it here...maybe we will get it for the finale though.

Rae

[webeh.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be surprised if we got a bump next week. In addition to the Rose fans, you'll likely have the Martha, Jack, Sarah Jane, and Torchwood fans tuning in as well. Those numbers combined should be larger than just the Rose fans by themselves.

They believe RTD is masochistic and they couldn't bear to just watch him torture the Doctor week after week and then crush him in the end.

Actually, I kind of think that somethings going to happen to Rose too. To both Rose and Donna, which would be all sorts of tragic. Something already happened to Rose two seasons ago and bad stuff keeps happening to Donna this season. But then, RTD loves Rose and personally I think he was generally gentler to her than to the other companions. As for Donna, I think RTD intended for bad stuff to happen to her all along.

[(Anonymous)]

I had no idea anyone was boycotting the show. I'm thrilled that Rose (Billie Piper) is back. I happen to think that the Doctor and Rose belong together and would love for it to happen - Rose staying/them being together. I've been trying to prepare myself in case RTD pulls another Doomsday but I tried to prepare myself back then and still wound up crying. I'm hoping and crossing my fingers for a better ending this season. I'd like to see the Doctor and Rose together for her lifetime. I hope those that are boycotting decide to start watching - I have to watch because I can't stand the idea of not seeing them on the screen.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I feel exactly the same way...there was no chance I would boycott if Billie was back. But all I wanted was for Martha to be gone and when I heard Donna was the new companion...I knew I would watch that. But lots of Rose fans are still not watching it. Me, I have been trying to tell them that "happy for her lifetime"...a little vacation...is the way it will probably go...this time. I mean...they've been separated forever...you can't really do that again...so...do you kill her...or elevate her to the Bad Wolf status...make her part of the TARDIS like I did in Disheveled?

Why bother bringing her back and creating this huge gathering of the clans if they aren't going to do something neat? This is end of the storyline stuff here...and Doomsday was not. And the only question we have is does RTD want to give the Doctor a break or not?

Rae
who likes to think he loves Rose and her Doctor and so will cut them some happy...but, of course, RTD wants us to sweat bullets until the finale's final moments.

[webeh.livejournal.com]

On the upside, remember how we all thought RTD was going to kill off Rose two seasons ago? He didn't do that because it would traumatize the little kids. So, maybe he won't do that again...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I didn't think he was going to kill her then. And I don't think he's going to kill her now. So if THAT is what the spoilers are saying...I don't believe them. I would say some sort of Bad Wolf elevation might be in store.

We have to look at the fact that RTD probably didn't change his story that much...and it was all about Rose/Doctor from the start...and about her merging with the TARDIS to show him that people could be more than they are now. Jack was supposed to rejoin them later...if Billie hadn't left. And so Jack we can assume has a role to play in this. And when I think of Jack and Rose together...I think of how he said he was created like he is for some sort of purpose. Rose, most likely, knows what the purpose is...or knew when she was the wolf.

I think that it is possible that the "loss of memory" Rose suffered is linked to that purpose...and so the Wolf self surges back to the surface when the Daleks are threatening the Doctor. Also, just the idea of wolves...the mate for life. They are very loyal. And I like how Billie says, "The Wolf is on the hunt." in reference to Rose's search for the Doctor.

Rae

[princessblue791.livejournal.com]

Thats what I've heard, I didn't know they were going that route. Its because I love the Doctor and Rose that I'm watching. I've got to see it play out. Plus its interesting to see that some of your theories are becoming fact. You must be great at chess.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

You know...I like things to make sense. And I have a very good ear, eye, nose...whatever...for bullshit. I think that would be nose, yeah?

:grin:

Anyway...I've watched all of the great TV writers...Chris Carter, JMS, Abrams, Joss Whedon, Ron Moore...and I'll tell you when and where they started bullshitting us. Sort of riding on their own reputation of genius. JMS is the only one who had a real throughline on his show. Babylon 5...made sense episode to episode. The others did not. Joss Whedon did for a few seasons...but then he lost his way...got bored or jaded or something...and he started giving us the same emotional punchline with no reasoning behind it...the death of lovers at the moment of triumph. YAWN!

Anyway...so...this is what we are expecting from RTD then...because television has taught us that there is no hope of a happy ending...and tragedy is somehow better than hope...and oh, btw...the writers are just masochistic people who get off on tormenting their impressionable young viewers who then spend hours lamenting the pain of genius and dissecting the work for hidden nuances that aren't even there.

:grin:

Not that I'm bitter...no!

LOL

I just can tell when there are hidden nuances...and when there are not...when there ARE nuances...the story makes sense and you don't need the writer to trot out onto a podcast...and explain that you should have noticed in episode 2 of S1 that we had some continuity.

Rae

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Also...I sort of have a twinge of professional ethics about this. I think a storyteller should playfair with an audience. I think that when you intend to do something astonishing later...like have Rose be a part of the TARDIS in Disheveled...you should set it up so the reader/viewer/listener...could have figured it out...can go back and see it clearly.

You shouldn't necessarily let it SHOW clearly...but it should be obvious on a rewatch...just like Turn Left...where you see all the little pieces click into place where they belong. RTD gives us pieces...and maybe we can't quite click them into place...yet...but I'm working on it...because I believe they do have a place in the picture as a whole.

Rae