Time Lord Reproduction
May. 12th, 2008 01:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rabid1stThere will be Aired in the U.K. S4 SPOILERS in this post. There will also be future episode speculation…but NO FUTURE SPOILERS. And don’t tell me any in your comments, either. If you know something…that proves or disproves or invites further speculation about what I’m posting…please, please, keep it mum.
Okay...feel free to skip the Old School stuff ahead...if you know it already.
Old School canon…telly canon not book canon...tells us a few things about Time Lords and Gallifrey. This post is very long-winded as it is just as much about Old School and Doctor Who, in general, as it is about anything else. So, let’s list what we know, shall we…
1)We know that the Doctor apparently had a biological family…granddaughter, Susan…a brother and children he took part in rearing and was “Dad” to. A sharp distinction is made about this...versus children of machines or test tubes or looms.
2)He has been married…or at least participated in a wedding ceremony which he viewed as “my own.”
3)We know that Time Lords regenerate. Tegan asks the Doctor if he can “still regenerate” and he says, “I am a Time Lord.” We could, if we liked, interpret this as meaning that it is the ability to regenerate itself that makes him a Time Lord on some level.
4)We also know that the Time Lords are able to “restore” regenerative ability and give another set of 12 regenerations to someone who has already used up all of their original ones. They offer this to the Master.
5)Beyond that…via the Master, again…we know that they can force their personality onto a host body…and then that host body can be granted regenerative abilities. So the physical body of a Gallifreyan isn't necessary.
6)We know regeneration is a choice for most Time Lords…and they can even chose NOT to do it...ala Last of the Time Lords.
7)We know that Time Lords regenerate 12 times…13 bodies and that those we have seen who press beyond that limit are generally power mad…Borusa, The Master…even Rassilon, perhaps.
8)We know that Rassilon has a secret to immortality...we don't know if it is a way to go beyond 12 regenerations though.
9)We know that all Time Lord knowledge…the essences of their former selves were recorded in a computer called The Matrix…and that some kind of essence of future selves can visit an existing Time Lord…ala the Valeyard to Six and Five to Four. We know that a Time Lord's essence can outlive his/her body...because the Master has done this, too.
10)There's a Chameleon Arch on every Time Lord TARDIS? WTF? I mean, why? Not just so we can write a story...they should have a FIC-REALITY reason for one. Well...maybe it is something they do...stick their memories and Time Lordliness into something else. The Master's essence was trapped in a box, I think, for the DW Movie. This could explain why the Doctor does better when he gets to the TARDIS. I've always said, she remembers him...maybe it's more than that...maybe she records his identity in some way.
We can reasonably assume because of The Master and Lucy Saxon, Susan and David and Leela and What’s his face…that Gallifreyans and humans are biologically compatible enough to have some form of sexual interaction.
Any gay or lesbian or sexually handicapped person can tell you that need not mean traditional intercourse. There are lots of things people do that fall within the scope of lovemaking. We do not know if such interaction is biologically viable…if any union between humans and Gallifreyans produced children or if said children would be capable of carrying on a hybrid line. But we do know that the Doctor offered Joan “everything John Smith” was capable of…and that meant giving her children.
So…here comes my radical idea…around a couple of assumptive curves. Let’s assume that the Doctor is indeed asexual. That his species is NOT, but that being a Time Lord makes him asexual. If we link that to the ability to regenerate…it makes sense. Gallifreyans (or anyone else, perhaps) can trade away the ability to breed naturally…for the ability to cheat death. This would mean that the Doctor had his wife and his children before he became a Time Lord, in the full sense of the word…before he was able to regenerate. Maybe Susan was simply from this family and his first companion.
I think that, if he had to give up being a Time Lord to have that again with Rose, it would explain his taking his time considering every option and angle. He would have to be very sure of Rose's devotion. It would be weighing the ability to reproduce against his entire way of life...like a monk forsaking his vows...or a prince abducating his throne.
Now…follow me closely…what if it is just like a prince...what if all he is...his regenerative ability…can be passed on to another person? What if that is how Time Lords produce other Time Lords? What if they pick someone…and pass on their regenerative ability…after 12 regenerations? At one point Harriet Jones asks the Doctor if that is just a title that’s passed on…and he tells he's the same man with a different face, different everything. But there has long been fanon about the possibility of a title passed on(that the Doctor is much older than he seems) and there is the book canon of the Other as well.
What if the Doctor could simply stop being a Time Lord, but the title of The Doctor could go on? What if that’s how Time Lords get more Time Lords? They store all they know in the Matrix...then biologically give their regenerative ability, their very identity away. They still keep their personality and their memories...but they copy them like a hard drive back up. Let’s say…when a Time Lord is ready to retire (or he falls in love and wants to reproduce with some human girl)…he can give, oh…12 new regenerations to another person along with all of his accumulated wisdom. Not all the emotional baggage, mind...just the history if you will.
Let’s say…Donna took on too much radiation from those Huron particles and she is dying of cancer, nothing can save her because she waits too long to tell the Doctor about it. But maybe she can be with him forever…joined in body like a wife…and set him free to go to Rose too. Maybe he can give her his ability to regenerate….let her become the DoctorDonna, friend of the Ood. You remember that annoying line where the Eighth Doctor claims he’s “half human on his mother’s side?” Well…maybe his particular body WAS half-human before he became THE DOCTOR. That is...before the Doctor before him, passed on his essence, his wisdom and the ability to regenerate.
I see him helping the DoctorDonna during the three encores in 2009. He takes a little time before he goes to Rose or during the transition. I see Donna dying and regenerating into a man…and going… “I’m a man.” And the former Doctor going…”Yeah, well…that can happen, sorry! You need to focus. I never really got the hang of it, myself.”
Rae
…who is, no doubt, seeing Crackfic…but that’s okay…I had fun with this and I really do see no reason, given canon, why Time Lords can’t reproduce by passing on their wisdom and skill…I think that fits in very well with S4...the episodes so far have been centering around alternative ways of reproducing.
Okay...feel free to skip the Old School stuff ahead...if you know it already.
Old School canon…telly canon not book canon...tells us a few things about Time Lords and Gallifrey. This post is very long-winded as it is just as much about Old School and Doctor Who, in general, as it is about anything else. So, let’s list what we know, shall we…
1)We know that the Doctor apparently had a biological family…granddaughter, Susan…a brother and children he took part in rearing and was “Dad” to. A sharp distinction is made about this...versus children of machines or test tubes or looms.
2)He has been married…or at least participated in a wedding ceremony which he viewed as “my own.”
3)We know that Time Lords regenerate. Tegan asks the Doctor if he can “still regenerate” and he says, “I am a Time Lord.” We could, if we liked, interpret this as meaning that it is the ability to regenerate itself that makes him a Time Lord on some level.
4)We also know that the Time Lords are able to “restore” regenerative ability and give another set of 12 regenerations to someone who has already used up all of their original ones. They offer this to the Master.
5)Beyond that…via the Master, again…we know that they can force their personality onto a host body…and then that host body can be granted regenerative abilities. So the physical body of a Gallifreyan isn't necessary.
6)We know regeneration is a choice for most Time Lords…and they can even chose NOT to do it...ala Last of the Time Lords.
7)We know that Time Lords regenerate 12 times…13 bodies and that those we have seen who press beyond that limit are generally power mad…Borusa, The Master…even Rassilon, perhaps.
8)We know that Rassilon has a secret to immortality...we don't know if it is a way to go beyond 12 regenerations though.
9)We know that all Time Lord knowledge…the essences of their former selves were recorded in a computer called The Matrix…and that some kind of essence of future selves can visit an existing Time Lord…ala the Valeyard to Six and Five to Four. We know that a Time Lord's essence can outlive his/her body...because the Master has done this, too.
10)There's a Chameleon Arch on every Time Lord TARDIS? WTF? I mean, why? Not just so we can write a story...they should have a FIC-REALITY reason for one. Well...maybe it is something they do...stick their memories and Time Lordliness into something else. The Master's essence was trapped in a box, I think, for the DW Movie. This could explain why the Doctor does better when he gets to the TARDIS. I've always said, she remembers him...maybe it's more than that...maybe she records his identity in some way.
We can reasonably assume because of The Master and Lucy Saxon, Susan and David and Leela and What’s his face…that Gallifreyans and humans are biologically compatible enough to have some form of sexual interaction.
Any gay or lesbian or sexually handicapped person can tell you that need not mean traditional intercourse. There are lots of things people do that fall within the scope of lovemaking. We do not know if such interaction is biologically viable…if any union between humans and Gallifreyans produced children or if said children would be capable of carrying on a hybrid line. But we do know that the Doctor offered Joan “everything John Smith” was capable of…and that meant giving her children.
So…here comes my radical idea…around a couple of assumptive curves. Let’s assume that the Doctor is indeed asexual. That his species is NOT, but that being a Time Lord makes him asexual. If we link that to the ability to regenerate…it makes sense. Gallifreyans (or anyone else, perhaps) can trade away the ability to breed naturally…for the ability to cheat death. This would mean that the Doctor had his wife and his children before he became a Time Lord, in the full sense of the word…before he was able to regenerate. Maybe Susan was simply from this family and his first companion.
I think that, if he had to give up being a Time Lord to have that again with Rose, it would explain his taking his time considering every option and angle. He would have to be very sure of Rose's devotion. It would be weighing the ability to reproduce against his entire way of life...like a monk forsaking his vows...or a prince abducating his throne.
Now…follow me closely…what if it is just like a prince...what if all he is...his regenerative ability…can be passed on to another person? What if that is how Time Lords produce other Time Lords? What if they pick someone…and pass on their regenerative ability…after 12 regenerations? At one point Harriet Jones asks the Doctor if that is just a title that’s passed on…and he tells he's the same man with a different face, different everything. But there has long been fanon about the possibility of a title passed on(that the Doctor is much older than he seems) and there is the book canon of the Other as well.
What if the Doctor could simply stop being a Time Lord, but the title of The Doctor could go on? What if that’s how Time Lords get more Time Lords? They store all they know in the Matrix...then biologically give their regenerative ability, their very identity away. They still keep their personality and their memories...but they copy them like a hard drive back up. Let’s say…when a Time Lord is ready to retire (or he falls in love and wants to reproduce with some human girl)…he can give, oh…12 new regenerations to another person along with all of his accumulated wisdom. Not all the emotional baggage, mind...just the history if you will.
Let’s say…Donna took on too much radiation from those Huron particles and she is dying of cancer, nothing can save her because she waits too long to tell the Doctor about it. But maybe she can be with him forever…joined in body like a wife…and set him free to go to Rose too. Maybe he can give her his ability to regenerate….let her become the DoctorDonna, friend of the Ood. You remember that annoying line where the Eighth Doctor claims he’s “half human on his mother’s side?” Well…maybe his particular body WAS half-human before he became THE DOCTOR. That is...before the Doctor before him, passed on his essence, his wisdom and the ability to regenerate.
I see him helping the DoctorDonna during the three encores in 2009. He takes a little time before he goes to Rose or during the transition. I see Donna dying and regenerating into a man…and going… “I’m a man.” And the former Doctor going…”Yeah, well…that can happen, sorry! You need to focus. I never really got the hang of it, myself.”
Rae
…who is, no doubt, seeing Crackfic…but that’s okay…I had fun with this and I really do see no reason, given canon, why Time Lords can’t reproduce by passing on their wisdom and skill…I think that fits in very well with S4...the episodes so far have been centering around alternative ways of reproducing.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
I don't think I've seen that...is it Old School?
Date: 2008-05-14 05:26 pm (UTC)I also think that some of his work is influenced by being the man behind Doctor Who. He is probably asked the same sorts of questions over and over again.
Could the Doctor be a woman? Is a prime example of something he is no doubt asked a lot of times.
Will the Doctor ever find Rose? Why can't he settled down and start a new family? Are the Time Lords coming back? Are all the Time Lords really gone? Is David Tennant leaving soon? Who will you get to replace him? And I happen to think many children asked him if a) the Doctor was in love with Martha now? and b) the Doctor is married to Donna because of the wedding dress and the scene with him putting a ring on her finger? Children tend to latch onto symbolism like wedding dresses and draw conclusions.
So...it could well be that the sledgehammer of him not being Donna's husband is the same as the sledgehammer of him not loving Martha the way he loved Rose. Just an overdone, make it very clear to all and sundry kind of thing.
Rae
You've never seen it???
Date: 2008-05-14 06:57 pm (UTC)Here you go:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wi460y (part 1)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ff5sno (part 2)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-05-15 10:19 am (UTC)Good suggestion, ramblinsuze! I hadn't realized that Rae hadn't seen it.
Rae, it's old school AND new, in that it was written by Steven Moffat. It's a 1999 Comic Relief skit. I cannot wait until you've see the cast!
:-D
Best running gag: "Dalek bumps". LOL!