Doctor Who...S4 speculation and SPOILERS

[rabid1st]

All I've heard are the standard rumors in the tabloid press and at Outpost Gallifrey's News Page. Don't spoil me further, please. And, if you've heard nothing do not read further...

I've been thinking about what I would do if I was RTD. And you know...I hit the nail on the head with Martha but missed by a mile when it came to the Master and the season finale. So, my speculation is pretty unreliable. However, I'd say, given these rumors and RTD...that he plans to bring Billie back for the three specials in 2009. I would say he intends to have the showdown with Davros as the S4 finale and it will feature Martha, Donna and possibly the Torchwood team on Earth.

I think Davros will punch a hole through to Rose as a way to hurt/stop the Doctor. I also think Davros may only show up at the very end of S4 and all we will see of Rose and her family in the finale will be a short cameo as Davros plays the "I can get to her" card. The Doctor will set off in furious pursuit of his worst enemy. Then, we might do 3 episodes of Rose/Doctor battling Davros' evil plan to stop the Daleks from taking over Pete's Universe and using it as a jumping off point for multi-verse destruction.

The only question then is...does it end with yet another terrible sacrifice for the Doctor...he stops Davros but loses Rose forever? Or does it end with the Doctor and Rose victorious and we start over with Eleven after a Rose's lifetime? I imagine RTD will set it up for a devastating ending...and then do a change up and have the Doctor stay with Rose. So, S5 will open with a very old Ten...coming back to our universe...and regenerating. He comes back because he promises Jack, Martha and Donna that he will at the end of S4.

That's what I'd do, anyway. Assuming, and it's a big assumption, I could sign both Billie and Ben Kingsley for three separate episodes. Though...come to think of it...Ben need only do the finale one. OR he could film most of his scenes at one time...as he will need to be very CGI.

Rae

Comments

[principia.livejournal.com]

I suspect if the Ben Kingsley rumors are true, they can just put him in makeup.

What I'd almost say is more likely, if interviews are any indication, is that Patrick Stewart might get the nod for Davros.

The return of Davros, if it's also heralded by the return of a Dalek Emperor, opens back up the old Dalek Civil War storylines - although since we've already had a two-competing-groups-of-baddies-shooting-at-each-other finale, RTD might not want to do that.

I dunno. I don't really picture Davros as the type of person to pull the threatening Rose routine. That seems much more the Master to me (and perhaps Tennant!Master, if that was supposed to be the point of keeping The Hand around).

If there's going to be a feature film, I would imagine that we'll at least get to see some healthy Doctor & Rose exploits during that time... with perhaps the old Doctor returning to our universe at the start of a (delayed) Series 5 after the movie.

I still want to know if the 3 2009 specials include a Christmas special for 2008 or 2009, and whether there's going to be a Christmas special for 2008.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I can see your point on Davros not using Rose to stop the Doctor...though I think that the Doctor might see that as his plan.

But I tell you what...Rose wiped out the Dalek Emperor and an entire Dalek fleet. If you don't think Davros is the sort to want to get his hands on that kind of power...you don't know Davros. He will do his level best to set up the same scenario we had the first time, if he thinks there is any chance at all of triggering Bad Wolf Rose.

As for the Ben Kingsley rumor...or Patrick Stewart or some guy in a suit...doesn't really matter. The special effects team will carry the day on Davros, I imagine. The important thing is the Daleks have a way to travel across the void...and that means they can get to Rose.

Rae

[principia.livejournal.com]

If you don't think Davros is the sort to want to get his hands on that kind of power...you don't know Davros.

Absolutely - but that's not the same thing as dangling Rose in front of the Doctor like a red flag in front of a bull. Or dangling the Doctor in front of Rose, for that matter.

I'm not sure exactly where the Cult of Skaro would've fit in the whole Dalek internecine warfare scenario, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Dalek Caan to think outside the box and decide the best way to bring the Daleks back to prominence is to go rescue/resurrect their creator.

The Daleks may have a way across the void, but so does the Doctor. If he didn't care about the universes collapsing, he could've kicked the door wide open and snatched her back. The question becomes whether the Daleks would be willing to risk collapsing the universes, or if perhaps they'll figure out a different way to tunnel through realities from within the void.

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

The Daleks may have a way across the void, but so does the Doctor. If he didn't care about the universes collapsing, he could've kicked the door wide open and snatched her back.

A little off topic, but while the Doctor might not risk both universe for such selfish reasons, I can most definitely see the Valeyard being capable (and mad enough) to do so. Now there would be an interesting twist (or at least an interesting fic), don't you think? ^.^

[principia.livejournal.com]

The post-Time War version of the Valeyard saying 'Screw you all, I'm going to get her'? Yeah, I could see that, especially given Ten's speech about fear and loneliness causing some of the most terrible acts ever committed.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I already did the whole Valeyard thing before the Master arrived. I'm not going there again. I stand by it being a good idea. But really...we see the Valeyard in the recent Master incarnation. I think RTD, wisely even, decided to not go with the Valeyard because he wanted the Doctor to remain pure of heart for the kiddies.

Rae

[principia.livejournal.com]

If he wanted the Doctor to remain pure of heart for the chilluns, he shouldn't/wouldn't have given us that ending to HN/FoB.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Good point. But he did go out of the way to set the Family up as evil first. Just like he did with the Spiderwoman. I think the Valeyard might blur the line a bit too much for kids.

Rae

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Well...they already tunneled through to our universe from the void, right? Though it caused a dangerous instability. On the other hand...maybe the cybermen coming after them caused the dangerous instability. The hole seemed to go through Pete's World, too. So we could, for writing purposes, assume that the Daleks traveled through Pete's World. Maybe they are the reason for the original hole the Tardis fell through.

I don't like a loophole like a rift that the Doctor can't explain but had to close in a plot and I doubt RTD likes it either. And I didn't mean that Davros wanting to get his hands on Rose was the same thing. I just meant that Rose was an excellent motivation for Davros to go to Pete's Universe. I feel you are correct in that his motivation probably wouldn't be just to hurt the Doctor. But, I think he would flaunt what he was about to do in the Doctor's face...even if he didn't understand the power of emotions. He would view the LOVE as the Doctor's weakness and gloat.

Rae

[chicklet73.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE to see Patrick Stewart on Who.

[principia.livejournal.com]

Apparently Patrick Stewart would love to see Patrick Stewart on Who, and has been a little surprised/put out that they've not asked him yet. Like they'd ever think he'd agree to be on... but now that he's said he's interested, I'd be on the lookout for him some time in the Series 4 or the specials.

[sideways.livejournal.com]

I know, me too. I'd pitch a serious fangirl fit if he showed up.

[wickedgillie.livejournal.com]

What I'd almost say is more likely, if interviews are any indication, is that Patrick Stewart might get the nod for Davros.

While I haven't been following the interviews, Patrick Stewart would be an interesting choice. Not sure if it would be more or less likely to happen because of he and DT doing Hamlet together next year...

[auntiesuze.livejournal.com]

I'm too tired at the moment to put together any sort of logical speculation. I'm just hoping for Rose any way I can get her. Though I always did like Davros' brand of crazy, so it'd be cool to see him again. Actually, he'd be a good lead-in for rebuilding the Daleks...so maybe it could be paralleled by the Doctor and Rose rebuilding the Time Lord race? You know what I'm sayin'.

*caffeine-deprived zombie*

ditto

[grbggrl.livejournal.com]

As long as I get Rose I honestly don't care how it happens. Even if it means another Tinkerbell type moment. I just want Rose back!

And I love when all the anti-Rose peeps out there get all pissy about rumors she's going to come back. "He'd better not do that!" And all that kinda crap. Like they really matter. The majority of the viewing public, which is by no means represented in any kind of fandom, LOVES Rose and want her back too. So whatevs.

Re: ditto

[principia.livejournal.com]

Apparently there were some serious ratings drops this past series, which would tend to indicate that either the scripts were significantly worse in Series 3 (which I won't argue against for stinkers like DiM/EotD), or Martha just wasn't cutting the mustard in comparison to Rose in terms of viewer popularity.

I would think that the anti-Rose people would want her to come back, so her storyline can be resolved and the Doctor can 'get on with it' like they claim they want him to. I'm just sayin'.

Like I always say...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...all you have to do is go to Google, hit the NEWS search and type in Billie Piper...then David Tennant...then Freema Agyeman. And you will see EXACTLY why the BBC wants Billie back. And then there are the kiddies...who aren't online with us obsessive weirdos but are just coming up to Billie and David and Russell and saying..."When is Rose coming back?"

Because any kid knows that is the end of the story...the Doctor can't stay sad...or be defeated by "the impossible"...he and Rose must reunite. If not now...when the kids that are now watching are able to write their "New Version" of Doctor Who in 20 years.

Rae

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

If/when Billie comes back I'll actually watch the show again for those brief episodes. ;)

[frodolass.livejournal.com]

Your whole theory sounds delicious as well as plausible. As soon as I heard that they were doing three big specials for 2009, I couldn't help but think that RTD was on his way to making a reunion!movie of some sort. While I don't blame you for being a little off with the Master and the finale (hell, I doubt anyone could have seen all that coming), I still have great faith that you and RTD are thinking along similar lines or sharing a weird psychic connection that is to be the envy of all. ^.~

But as to my reaction to the rumour that Ben Kingsley might be playing Davros... it makes me want to pull me hair out and scream and weep to think of it. Terry Molloy is alive and could very well still play the role in a live action episode. Or, baring that, he can at least do the dubbing and we can just hire some skinny dude to put on the mask and play the part. But no one, and I mean no one should be playing this role but Terry. Not that I have anything against Ben Kingsley or Patrick Stewart or whomever, but Terry IS Davros! Anyone who has met the man will attest to this. I will be severely disappointed if they hire anyone else for the part.

[principia.livejournal.com]

Terry's still around? Sweet! They certainly could put Paul Casey in the Davros costume/contraption and have Terry do the voice at the very least. They got John Leeson back for K-9, after all!

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

As for the Billie rumours, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find that the BBC had condoned these leaks, if not actively engineered them. The fact that they've been reported, albeit unsubstantiated, on OG, speaks volumes. But if there is going to be any official announcement, I think the POTB would want Belle du Jour well out of the way. I can still remember how upset my daughter was when she walked in on the marital rape scene in "Recovery". As far as she was concerned, that man was the Doctor.

[kitmarlowescot2.livejournal.com]

Rose will probably never end up with the Doctor, that's like Joss finally putting Buffy with Angel or Spike, or finally doing a threesome.

The one thing I want to happen is for Sarah Jane and Jack to meet, then I can die happy.
And that doesn't happen their is always Torchwood with James, coming on...sighhhh....
I just wish RTD would do one ship even for a second, even if it is Jack/Doctor or even Doctor/Tardis.
I still imagine Jack/Doctor babies ;)

[kammgirl.livejournal.com]

Hey can you repost your lovely reply to me? I had a double post again and the one with you reply had to be deleted. :)