Obviously, I'm untrustworthy...sigh...UTOPIA, Dr. Who S3

[rabid1st]

No fic up and spoilers under the cut

First, yes...I am officially disappointed. I've known since Christmas, that Simm was supposed to be the Master...I had just hoped it was a blind. Because...well...I loath the Master. He's like the universal cop out and I think he's the reason that the TV movie failed. It's all rather easy to have an old enemy to fight, time and time again. It clears up all the moral ambiguities...which this episode did a very good job at all round.

In fact, I can't really knock the emotional impact of this episode. And what didn't we cover? Russell got a lot done in a very short time. And that's damned fine storytelling no matter what. And I suppose it is true...people have been salivating for the Master. So, back he comes...at least for a time. And I did enjoy the edge of your seat business with the watch...because it showed that RTD, at least, entertained the idea of a Dark Doctor. He teased us with it..right down to Chanto and Martha being parallel worshippers. Like I've said...in fic and meta...that has got to be a Time Lord thing...inspiring devotion in an instant.

I notice Rose has the same gift, btw. Jack and the Doctor and Mickey and Pete...all under her spell. As were a lot of other people in S2.

But back to the Master. That whole trippy time war business with the single tear...Jacobi...my goodness what a joy to watch. And Simm looks like he'll be a good time. I might even want to keep him around next season. And the idea of the Master hiding from justice in human form and then surviving because of that...very good stuff.

Never one to give up theorizing though...I am still on Rose being involved in this business at the finale. I see a sort of battle in a burning house kind of thing...Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty at the Falls. However, I've been wrong before...I've been wrong tonight. And I did notice there was a certain bit of closure for the Doctor on Rose already...right there...talking to Jack...which brings me to what I'm here to gush about...

Rose! And Martha overhearing the entire Rose is the best thing ever history. Though, of course, I can see that probably Martha is going to be vindicated now...as the Doctor is the good guy and will return her devotion just to spite the Master. That's the trouble with clear cut villians...they give the whole game away. Where was I...

Oh...yes...ROSE! That moment at the door...when the Doctor says Rose is gone and he presses his forehead to the glass...then he asks Jack if he wants to die. So heartbreaking...because it's now clear that the Doctor has wanted to die all season long. But then, Jack understands...so again...in a way...the Doctor isn't alone. And I still wonder...is it really humans that should be Time Lording up. And also...is the Doctor right about what happened with Bad Wolf? That Rose couldn't control her power? Because she did pretty damned well with the Daleks.

People are wondering about Rose...asking if the Master might go to Pete's World. But he heard all of that...about Jack and the fixed moment in time and Rose having all that power...and he heard where Rose comes from...2007...like Martha says in her blog...Rose comes from 2007. Or...as someone says...2005. But Martha says...she hopes 2007 isn't where Rose is from...and what it is IS where Rose disappeared, I think. I wonder...wouldn't the Master love to get his hands on the Doctor's human love? If Rose still had that power over life and death...and the Master had Rose...like the Doctor said...he could become a god. And isn't that just like him?

Rae
who will not stop theorizing...even if you shouldn't listen to me at all.


Whoa! Sorry, about the weird double-speak...maybe there's something to this time loop theory.

Comments

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

*waits*

I am abusing you with my lies

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Okay...here's the thing...I did finish fic before I watched...10 pages anyway...but then I made the mistake of going on a fact checking expedition...and finding out that in Chapter 14...I covered the exact same ground. This does not mean...however, that you won't have fic...because DAMN IT...I have to get this out there.

Rae

Re: I am abusing you with my lies

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

That's not what I was referring to. ;)

Re: I am abusing you with my lies

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

*points up*

[kitsune17.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that someone else was as pleased with the Rose closure as I was. I really like some of your theories, and may subscribe to some of them.

I thought Rose was from 2005?

Side note: You doubled up on your entry, love. Hit ctrl-v twice, maybe?

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Marr, you ruined the fun!

[kitsune17.livejournal.com]

...Oh. I'm...sorry. ::hangs head in shame::

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Well... At least you apologized.

:-P

[larielromeniel.livejournal.com]

Keep theorizing! :-D

I don't mind seeing the Master back. A little scenery chewing is always fun. But last we saw him, he was being sucked into the Eye of Harmony...so how'd he get back? Wonder if they'll answer that or just pass over it?

For me, the Master wasn't the problem with the TV movie. I liked Eric Roberts as the Master (and have used that particular characterization). The business with the Eye of Harmony being on the TARDIS bugged me and still does. Didn't make sense. Somehow the whole movie didn't hang together as well as it should have.

I *want* to see Rose involved somehow in the series...but I'm pretty sure we won't get it unless they did some super-secret filming.

I do think the Master would LOVE to get his hands on Rose if he could find a way to her.

Damn. I keep thinking about the Doctor's hand and about the Hand of Omega. Whip up one Stellar Manipulator and crossing universes becomes easy....

Suppose I'm obsessed on that idea.

Tell me about it...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

But last we saw him, he was being sucked into the Eye of Harmony...so how'd he get back? Wonder if they'll answer that or just pass over it?

People have told me that RTD has claimed the movie is canon. Certainly, the BBC lists it as canon. But I've always thought trapping the Master in the Eye was just asking for him to turn up at the end of the universe. His regenerations aren't that big a mystery...the Time Lords might have given them to him (even retrieved him from the Eye...and yes, it was ridiculous)...to help with the war.

The Master is brilliant, according to his own press MUCH smarter than the Doctor. It would be like him to simply take the regenerations and cut out on the fight.

You know...I'm going back to the Doctor's hand...and Omega...and my Valeyard theory...sigh...we could have tied it to the OTHER, too. Sent the Valeyard back to the very beginning of the universe. Jack is a fix point in time...wrong on so many levels...and Rose had this enormous power...and it just seems like...it should all be connected. There's a rift...that some mysterious guy made Jack's people open...a gateway to other dimensions. And Martha...she's got important info now...lots of it...and she's there...waiting to prove she's just as good as Rose...gosh, darn it!

Rae

[allyv.livejournal.com]

Okay, I haven't watched one episode this season (I'm still in mourning) but I had to see my Captain Jack. The scene with Jack and the Doctor talking through the door? Lovely. And the "I'm sorry." "Yeah." was just, gah. Gutted. That one "Yeah" expressed his sadness, his longing for his Rose. Sniffle. Unfortunately, even though I want to believe, I feel like this was a goodbye, like RTD was saying that Rose really isn't coming back. Ever. No matter how much we, and the Doctor, and Jack, want it.

On a side note - what was with the Reavers? Someone has been watching too much Firefly...

Also - Hermits United. Hee!

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yeah...you could be right about that...the goodbye...because all our questions were pretty much answered...and Martha learned what she needed to learn about love. And now Martha can make her sacrificial act knowing that there is no chance she will ever be Rose...

It's all sort of "Every dog has it's day" at this point...the Doctor almost HAS to love Martha to prove he's not as cold and cruel as the Master. He can't continue to reject her. So, the only hope we have for being rid of her...is she really grows up and leaves him. OR...really...REALLY grows up...and suggests he go find Rose.

The last is what I'm hoping for...if you look back I've said all along that Martha must be coming to her own place of amazement...she must shine. But I'm not sure that her shining is connected to her getting her way on this love issue. Because it's just been adamantly fought every step of the way. I think it's more about self-worth...and reclaiming a sense of your own purpose. For Jack. For the Doctor.

One thing about the Master...he does sort of alienate the Doctor from his people once again. He mirrors the Doctor's evil potential in a way that doesn't tarnish the Doctor's image as much as the Valeyard might. Though personally...I'm so much more into the Valeyard...and I hope the Master disappears for another long while after this.

Rae
and...yes...I did love the return of his babbling...

[laughingduchess.livejournal.com]

when the Doctor says Rose is gone and he presses his forehead to the glass...then he asks Jack if he wants to die. So heartbreaking...because it's now clear that the Doctor has wanted to die all season long. But then, Jack understands...so again...in a way...the Doctor isn't alone.

You know, I loved that scene for the shippy aspect, but I wasn't sure what I thought about it as it related to the characters. I thought it might be too cold for the Doctor and when I read your post, I was all, I don't think the Doctor wanted to die. But I went back and rewatched it with that in mind and I think you're spot on. Holy, heartbreaking. I'm so glad you posted this, because the scene just wasn't gelling for me and now, presto! It works.

I have to say that this episode actually made Martha make more sense to me. I think one of the big reveals in the Jack/Doctor scene is that Martha may not have known that Rose was trapped in the parallel universe. I think she's been under the assumption that Rose abandoned him/chose to leave, which makes her dislike of Rose/her pining for the Doctor to see what's right in front of him way more understandable. Maybe Martha is just misunderstood because the writer's haven't been clear about what she really knows.

I would be thrilled if Rose popped up, but I think it's highly unlikely. If these were Tennant's last shows or it were the last 2 eps of the series I'd say it was a possibility, but I don't think we'll be that lucky right now.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I think one of the big reveals in the Jack/Doctor scene is that Martha may not have known that Rose was trapped in the parallel universe. I think she's been under the assumption that Rose abandoned him/chose to leave,

This is what I've been saying about Martha all along...and if I was dead wrong about the Valeyard...it's nice to be right abous something. I think it is vital that Martha didn't really understand anything. And if you'll pardon me saying...I think the writer's have been very clear about her not knowing. We keep getting hints from Martha that the Dcotor is going on about Rose. However, she doesn't seem to understand WHY?

And it becomes easy for her justify her devotion by couching it in loyalty...you maybe thinks SHE'S the finest companion ever...but I'm the one that really loves you. This is why I sort of reject the idea of Martha's character getting her way and him loving HER...because she's not Rose. And I don't say this as a Rose-shipper...I say this because the writers have continued to point out...over and over again...that she's not ROSE. But that's can be okay...if she starts being MARTHA.

Martha has something else to offer...or should...as a person. The reason she keeps failing miserably and moping about is because she is trying to be the Doctor's love interest. She sees that he needs that...she didn't see that he already had it...and it was lost. This starts at the very beginning when he tells her the same lie he tells Jack...Rose is "Happy, with her family."

And this one loophole is why I still expect Rose to have something to do with the finale...or with the end of David's tenure as the Doctor...because the truly selfless thing for Martha to do...is to find a way for the Doctor to go to Rose for a time.

Rae
who also can feel a bit vindicated by RTD confirming that what the Doctor loved so much about Rose was the core of her humanity...she was so human...and he adores humans. Nice to see him be reminded of THAT, too.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

You know, in a way, I quite like the idea of the Master trying to seduce Rose. This could be an interresting storyline.. or fanfiction...
Then John Simm is brilliant... and a "pretty boy" too... maybe miss Tyler, even if she still loves the Doctor, could be senstive to his charms... lol.
I think three years had passed between "The Age of steel" and "Doomsday" in the other world... So it's the year 2010...
If the Master arrived in 2007, he would have had three years to find new strategies, become a good friend of Pete... Oh God! Doctor! Find a way to come back to Rose, please!
About Martha: Well, I can't say I totally disliked her in this episode... But I thought she was kind of... not there... David and John (Both Barrowman and Simm) (and Sir Derek Jacobi) were the stars of the show and Freema/Martha was a bit like the third wheel...
Or is it just me?

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

You know I was completely convinced that it wasn't going to be the Master. But my Post-Doomsday fic was indeed the Master...doing just what you've suggested. I have Rose working at Torchwood and this burned and damaged being arrives and regenerates...and he doesn't remember anything...at first...but then when he hears her call him the Doctor...he remembers it.

And for a time...Rose and this new Doctor work side by side...but Rose is cautious because he's still the alternative universe Doctor...and she's not sure how she feels about him. As the story progresses...more and more she begins to suspect that he's not the Doctor at all.

You see...in MY storyline...the Time Lords were shifted to another universe...and didn't die at all...they died like Rose did...by no longer being in this universe. And the Master has convinced them all that he's the Doctor. So...lots of nasty thing happen. It was a good story...but now...it's sort of ruined for me...because the Master is back...and everyone will be doing this sort of thing.

Back to my Rani storyline I think...or something else all together...

Rae
thinking there is no way Martha is going to be anything but a cipher...even if she is slated to save the world. There's just not much to her. Nothing developed this season...even her crush isn't really developing...it's just going to surge into some emo finale.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

A cipher? Lol, that's a bit hard (but deserved).
Oohhhh, I've never read that fic. What is its title and where can I read it????

[nostariel]

I...really, really hated the idea of the Master returning. Which is why I've been reading the spoilers and recaps and reaction posts all season, because long experience has taught me not to trust TPTB. Bah. I hate being right.

I just... ANY of the Time Lords returning would have driven me crazy, because it's lazy and cowardly and not the story I thought I thought I was being told. But the Master is the worst. It's like bringing the Daleks back over and over again - I've already been told that story, give me something new please?

So while I'm sure I'll enjoy the new season when it finally gets here, because it sounds like it's got some great episodes, I'm glad I already know what's going to happen. Because otherwise my theories would have led me to great disappointment when the Valeyard didn't show up, you know?

I now have a horrible suspicion that the Doctor is going to be lightswitched on his feelings for Martha, especially as I've heard the actress will be back next season.

*shudder*

Yeah...well...you won't get any argument..

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...from me on this one...I...really, really hated the idea of the Master returning. Which is why I've been reading the spoilers and recaps and reaction posts all season, because long experience has taught me not to trust TPTB. Bah. I hate being right.

I just... ANY of the Time Lords returning would have driven me crazy, because it's lazy and cowardly and not the story I thought I thought I was being told. But the Master is the worst. It's like bringing the Daleks back over and over again - I've already been told that story, give me something new please?

It is the complete lack of imaginiation that a rail against. But then...the delivery was quite good. So I wouldn't necessarily advise against watching S3. I'm not the sort of mindless drone to tell you the storyline is good if it isn't...I was wrong about it...but it isn't drivel.

Rae

[kitmarlowescot2.livejournal.com]

Waiting for the Doctor/Master flirting. Jack just rocks.

[omega85.livejournal.com]

I was terribly disappointed that Jack didn't have a more central role... however, he wasn't completely shoved to the side, either, and that makes me happy. And the fact that the Doctor is afraid of Jack.. that is incredibly interesting. John Simm being the Master is pretty cool, even though I never was fond of the Master. Simm is a well-rounded actor, and I enjoyed his switching from happy-go-lucky bad guy to SUPREME EVIL bad guy. A different actor mightn't do such a smooth transition back and forth. And OMG Derek Jacobi?! LOVE!! Oh, he is too good. Too, too, too wonderful. Sigh.

So much more I could ramble on about, but I will spare you. :)