Attention astichintime_9 and other Nine lovers

[rabid1st]

My very first story in the Doctor Who fandom, The Problem with Roses was recently recommended and I went back and read it myself (because...yeah...that's what I do :grin: ). And in the comments I came across my very own earliest sentiment about Nine and Ten...and here it is...

Nine had a simmering, barely acknowledged passion, but Ten...? He's "sweet on her" as they used to say. It's all a bit old-fashioned and oddly pure. He takes her out and might dare to dream of stealing a kiss. She's the girl he'd take home to mother. She makes his pulse quicken and he's likely to sit and stare at her. She's his sweetheart.

So, I DID find Nine passionate and sexually intriguing. Interestingly, I lost this sense of innocence in the Ten/Rose relationship once Rose was seriously threatened in The Satan Pit and Idiot's Lantern. Ten turned out to have a darker passion simmering than Nine ever had. I think that is another reason why JE sits so badly with me...because Ten really was consistently dead set against anyone taking Rose away from him. Now, I know...that technically...he might not view Ten 2 as a separate man...anymore than he would regard Four as a separate Doctor...but it was really still out of character for him to give up like that.

I like to think he hasn't given up...even though I know that lots of Rose/Ten fans have. I suppose that is more reflective of my personality though. I don't give up easily, as you all are certainly aware by now. :grin:

Rae

Comments

[blueinsideout.livejournal.com]

I too like to think that he hasn't given up. I feel very differently about the fics with Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose. I know that it's the same "man," but they're very very different in many ways. I like both, don't get me wrong, but you're right, very different.

And I don't give up either. I'm actually in the middle of attempting to write a fic for a fandom within a fandom (based on a couple within a larger fandom - does that make sense?) that's over ten years old. In canon they broke up years and years ago and have barely interacted since then. Don't care. Still ship it. Still think they were better together than apart or with anyone else.

Still holding out for Ten and Rose.

Nine lover checking in

[fidesangelus.livejournal.com]

I have to really agree with you about why JE just seemed so wrong. Personally I feel that Ten would view Ten 2 as more of a separate person then any other previous version of the Doctor because Ten still exists and while Ten 2 has all of the Doctor's previous knowledge and experiences he is not Ten because Ten (and all of the other Doctors) are independent of him. He's the Xerox instead of the relaunch so to speak. Hopefully this makes sense.

And yay! for minimal Nine passion acknowledgment. ;)

You rang?

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

Yes, Nine = "simmering". And that's even after, you understand, my not expecting the final kiss, thanks to SyFyCh edits that cut out so much of the developing relationship.

[And speaking of edits: IMO, that 3 second clip of the Hug edited from Dalek still beats the alternate (not used) Kiss from JE hands down. BP/CE had amazing chemistry and body language that made the Rose/Nine pairing exceptional.]

I've accepted Ten/Rose, but I don't prefer them.

(But you knew that...)

[shaela]

So, I DID find Nine passionate and sexually intriguing.

Maybe it’s because season one was fresher in your mind back in… May 2006? Still, I’m glad you could see the Nine/Rose chemistry.

Ten turned out to have a darker passion simmering than Nine ever had.

See, I don’t see anything in season two as more passionate or protective than the Doctor’s speech at the end of “Bad Wolf.” (Not to mention his utter despair when he thought he’d lost her, earlier in the episode.) But tastes vary.

[hazelwho.livejournal.com]

I shipped Nine/Rose so hard it took me months to get used to Ten. Love him too now, and ship Ten/Rose as much as I ever did Nine. But it took time.

Yeah, JE was just wrong on a number of levels. (Don't get me started on what they did to Donna. Against. Her. Will. I am SO not okay with that.) But Ten leaving Rose with TenII was completely unbelievable. Let me see if I've got this straight. Rose takes the vortex into herself and dies for Nine. Then Nine dies for her. Rose does the impossible again, crossing universes to get back to Ten. And Ten takes her back to parallel Norway, sticks her with the clone, and tells her to look at it like a project?? No way. Never happened.

I know this is really wrong, but I'm secretly hoping TenII turns out to be the Valeyard (wrong regeneration, I know, I know) so we can have Rose and Ten team up again and get the ending to that story we always wanted. And I am not ever going to be ready for Eleven. He's like 17 years old. And his companion looks like an extra from Twilight. I can't deal...

[ladyofgallifrey.livejournal.com]

Never give up, never surrender!

sorry, wrong movie, uh, tv show, uh... never mind!

Nine was my "first doctor" and so has a special place in my heart, but Ten & Rose belong together and it will happen, if RTD knows what's good for him

Pony.

That's all I'm sayin.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Is that your motto? I thought your motto was: Hide Until It's Over!

:snicker:

I say PONY!

I also say that this time...you should have those black roses on speed dial...just in case.

Of course, I do want to believe that RTD really is going to come through for us this time. I know he can do it. As I've proved over and again...it's not only POSSIBLE to fix JE...it's easy and necessary and, could prove quite lucrative, to fix JE.

Rae

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

They are definitely going for the Twilight vibe with Eleven and his companion. Like I've said...I don't mind as long as Russell gives us a stirring solution to Ten/Rose...and JE was NOT it.

As for Ten 2 being the Valeyard, well...my feeling is that too many people have invested love in Ten 2...because he behaved in a way we could relate to and Ten did not. Rose's behavior can be justified...because the Doctor is basically not acting like himself. He's forcing her to accept circumstances that make no sense...so I could see her finally kissing Ten 2 to see if he really was HER Doctor.

But TEN...I mean...either there is some purpose to it all...like saving Donna or Ten 2 really needing some schooling...or something...or Ten just sort of lost it over Davros. Those are the only scenarios I can wrap my brain around for it.

There is one other in character thing...consistent to the Doctor...and that is his belief that Rose would be better off as far away from him as possible. When he gives her Ten 2...he thinks that he is solving some of the problems she's had before...she expressed this need to help the Doctor. So, I suppose, he could feel that if she has someone to help...someone who looks like him...but is human...she'll be content to stay in the safe place. There is that point in Army of Ghosts when Jackie asks the Doctor about people coming back from heaven...and he says, "It would be horrific."

I can see him thinking that about Rose...that it is horrific that she returned to the battle for him...when he doesn't deserve it. The only problem with THAT scenario...is that it is completely at odds with his reaction to her return. He runs to her arms. And later, when she says she was building a dimension cannon to come back to him...he is positively delighted with her. No! NO! What changes him is having TEN 2 around...or what Davros said...or both.

Rae

I must say...that kiss in PotW is hot

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I think it is that, "Come 'ere!" that he does. But also...it's a very hot kiss. To me, it represents the Doctor completely surrendering to what he's wanted for a very long time.

I believe Ten can deliver a kiss that is equally as hot. If he gets what HE wants. We must recall that while Billie and David were doing a bang up job with that beach kiss...they were not particularly connected to those characters. I doubt Billie even recognized that feckless woman as Rose.

I often feel that was more like David and Billie kissing...especially given Billie laughing in the middle of it all.

I do think they tried. I believe they were told to really kiss, because it was originally supposed to be matched with the awe and wonder script that RTD presented. But I think they were both sort of feeling out of character in that moment. David was playing the slightly stiffer Ten 2 and Billie wasn't sure what was motivating Rose.

I also firmly believe that both David and Billie knew that wasn't the last they would see of one another. Though they maybe didn't know what the circumstances of the finale would be.

Rae

[sal101010.livejournal.com]

Hmm, suddenly I'm wondering if the comment I just made on that story would be better posted here....

Here is said comment...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...
ETA: I don't think Ten will ever recover from Rose. He quite simply fell totally in love with her. It's one good thing that Eleven is on his way - perhaps a fresh start for the Doctor and his hearts. I do, however, hope that we get one more look at Rose and Ten2. I'd like to see how he and they are getting on.

...and my response.

Well, certainly, that is all we are led to believe we can hope for...a sort of acceptance that what happened in JE was right and proper...and the best we can hope for in the end. However, I still hope that RTD can fix things in a more believable way than regeneration. Because regeneration, as things currently stand, will not make Ten feel better. The New Who canon currently states that Nine loved Rose and Ten loved Rose...so...regeneration, as far as we know, doesn't make him stop loving Rose.

To claim that...RTD or Moffat would have to do a rewrite of the character as it stands just now. But...if Ten 2 isn't Ten...and RTD explains the how and why of THAT in his last three episodes...then it makes some sense. Of course, there is the attitude RTD puts forward in the confidentials...that somehow all of Ten's suffering makes him more heroic. In that case, I simply disagree with the basic philosophy. I do not believe in making people suffer needlessly just to prove they are strong people. BAH!

Rae
hoping for more meaning to all, rather than proof that Rose and Donna are happy in their little cages.

What I mean is...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...if all we get is a shot of Rose and Ten 2 living happily ever after on Pete's World. Then, what RTD is saying is just...let me show you how what I did was right. It wasn't right. He's simply justifying. And, frankly, I do think the audience has been justifying...pretending that Rose was happy at the end instead of unhappy. Or pretending that she WILL be happy once she accepts her circumstances. None of that is like ROSE to me...she's just not the sort to simply accept that the Doctor knows best.

If she WAS that sort of person, then she would never have rescued him in Parting of the Ways. She would never have become the Bad Wolf. She would never have come back from Pete's World both times. She doesn't just go..."Oh, okay...I guess I'll have a happy life now!" She would want to make SURE Ten is happy, too. And he's not!

Beyond that...if, as the fandom expects, we go on and Donna lives a fulfilling life after having her memories taken from her...doesn't that justify the Doctor taking everything from her? Doesn't that say, yes, he made the right choice?

I am sorry, but I require RTD to fix the Doctor not whitewash over the Doctor's bad choices. I can't be happy just being told that everything works out in the end for the best.

Rae