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[personal profile] rabid1st
I begin to care less and that's a good thing. Okay, good for me. Not necessarily good for the show. However, there is news and I know some of you want me to weigh-in on it. So...under the cut we go...

Let me be clear, first, that I stand firm and care very much about how the Ten/Rose years should end. Ten should go to Rose and be healed of his emo-martyr complex with a few decades of home cooking and good loving. To me that is a non-negotiable condition of my continued acceptance of New Who, going forward. I believe it is the only way that the Doctor's heroic nature can be restored. I have no interest in any attempt to whitewash his cowardice. For me to enjoy the show again, he has to face up to not being willing to face what every human handles without flinching: the eventual loss of a loved one. He can't just mope about and claim that Rose and Donna are better off now that he's stranded them in pointless backwaters and get away with my sympathies. He does not have them.

However, I am caring less about things like the new companion being cast. Her name is Karen Gillan and she's 21 and red-haired and from Scotland. So we will still have a bit of that lovely accent, I assume, even though David is gone. Certainly, she looks the part...a woman/child with a sort of street-tough beauty. And I believe Stephen Moffat will make her very interesting. I also think he will make her sexy while avoiding romance with the Doctor. And I am fine with all of that...provided I get resolution on the story I care about...otherwise...I don't really care what they do. Can she act? Does it matter? The task before the new team is a daunting one even with proper resolution of the Ten/Rose/RTD years.

Which brings me to the news of the feature film and David Tennant's possible involvement...does that idea mean we are definitely NOT going to get our pony? Some people believe that there is no way a feature film could support the Rose/Ten backstory and so the very idea of a film would mean no pony for us. Other people insist that a Rose/Ten (Defenders of the Earth) storyline is the only one they are interested in seeing on the big screen. Personally, I could make this work for all of us...easily. BBC AND RTD? Please take note and CALL ME! HA! I kid, but seriously, I could use the work...say as an American audience consultant? Moffat? Anyone?

*sigh* Back to the post...

I have always felt that Rose has her place in the canon and that her place is an extraordinary one. But I have never felt that she should derail the essence of Doctor Who as a franchise. Rose is the companion the Doctor fell in love with...simply that. She is the one he wanted as a man wants a woman. She is special, in her own right, and because she is special to him. Her place doesn't make any other companion less important. Her place is finite. The Doctor was able to open up to her because he was wounded and alone and she was perfect for him and he made himself perfect for her when he regenerated into Ten. Future regenerations might be LESS suited to Rose Tyler. This is not to say that The Doctor wouldn't always care for her deeply and acknowledge her place. Nor do I mean that the Doctor might not love her all over again each time.

But the Doctor's personality changes when he regenerates. He isn't exactly the same man, having the same tastes and loving the same things. This is one of many reasons why I can't support Ten 2 and Rose. Ten 2 isn't Ten...he makes different choices...he's part Donna. Rose was correct when she said, "But..he's not YOU!" Nine wasn't Ten either. Eleven won't be Ten. Ten is the one who is lost without Rose...and he's the one who wants to live out her life with her. It would do him good.

But what about AFTER? After she dies...assuming they have had a long and fulfilling life together...kids, grandkids, many adventures, lovemaking, dancing, laughter and healing...what does the Doctor do then? That's the question that the Doctor himself is wrestling with every time he and Rose discuss their love. He fears that eventual loss. He tells us that clearly in School Reunion. He didn't allow himself to love Sarah Jane because of the curse of the Time Lords, going on alone. He doesn't want to face the day when Rose will be gone forever.

We Rose-lovers fear that day, too. But such loss is a natural part of growth and change in the life of an ageless icon like the Doctor. And it's one, by the way, that we the audience have yet to face, too. The Master keeps coming back. So does Davros, Sarah Jane and the Brig. Nobody every really DIES in Doctor Who...except maybe Adric. For perfect closure on the RTD years, we all need to accept that Rose will be gone one day.

It isn't that she goes...but HOW she goes that matters. What she means to the Doctor; what she makes of him...MATTERS! The Doctor can go to Rose and return a better man. Or he can go on as an emotional cripple. Regeneration might slap a happy face on him, but it won't change the choices he's made. And those choices are self-limiting and pointless.

Personally, I would like to see a movie with Tennant where we see the Doctor at the end of a very long life with Rose Tyler...going on as a better man...healed and renewed by the time he spent with her. Losing her then would be meaningful, because she would have fulfilled her purpose. The Doctor would be reset organically, ready for new adventures. He could be a true example to his young fans, taking joy from life as well as sorrow. And that, my friends, is what life is. It isn't unrelenting angst. It is often very sweet, if you allow yourself to savor it. The Doctor has suffered enough. He should have what RTD tells us he has never had...a simple life, living day to day. Then, afterward, he could take the great-grandkids on a little time/space jaunt. I would watch that.

I would also watch Moffat's version of the Doctor if I believed he represented a future version of a hero I could respect. I might grow to care about that Doctor.

If he represents the "lonely God" with even more baggage...traveling, traveling, traveling onward...well, I couldn't care less about such a man and his pointless adventures.


(no subject)

Date: 2009-05-29 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com
I feel increasingly detatched from it all and that's a good thing for my mental health. I'm with you 100% on the Ten/Rose resolution though. An emotional coward is not a role model that interests me or that I'd want my kids to emulate if they were of an age to listen to me or let me control their viewing choices any more.

I'm actually increasingly optimistic about the Pony outcome, though. I think all the pointers are towards a David/Billie movie, if that happens, and of course they have the ideal setup whether they give our Ten a happy ending or not. I do detect a fair amount of bet-hedging, though. I think it's by no means a done deal that New Who under Moffatt will succeed. Even if it's brilliant, things only have a limited life at the top unless they change and develop.

I've been watching the Star Trek reboot with great interest and I find it fascinating that, as things now stand, even Spock is being allowed more emotional development than Ten - the chance to survive the destruction of his planet without becoming an emotional cripple, an opportunity to warn his youthful self that relationships matter more than cultural dogmatism and even the hint of a cross species heterosexual romance. As often happens when the RL news is depressing, the tide is turning away from fashionable misery to hopeful outcomes.

Interesting, Cat!

Date: 2009-05-29 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I found myself having a very similar reaction to the Star Trek movie. As I watched it, I found myself admiring how they made different choices for the characters and with those choices created a different version of the tired old franchise. And, yes, I found myself drawing a parallel to Journey's End and how RTD, for whatever reason, decided to NOT be that couragous with his show. I thought that, even if he means to take a more courageous path this Christmas, that it is a shame he let Star Trek get there first.

Going boldly in a new direction is what keeps a long running franchise alive. Creating Next Generation was a bold move...and this new movie had done what I want RTD to do with the Doctor...allow him to grow...give him a future that can be better than, more surprising than his past.

Like you, I think the BBC has been hedging their bets on Moffat's take over of the series. And I see nothing wrong with that. I believe given the established canon of Rose in a parallel universe...a film series with David Tennant isn't going to rock the boat at all. In fact, I think it will increase the fanbase, bring curious new fans in to learn more about Rose Tyler and her Doctor and hence, to learn what happens NEXT with Matt Smith. It's another win/win situation...waiting to be delivered.

The alternative universe is a gingerbread house...and RTD needs to get busy exploring possiblities instead of limiting them.

I, as you know, have some faith in him. I feel that things do look good for the pony at this point. But, JE represented such a stall in the character development I was expecting...that I am not sure Moffat and Matt are going to make it. We will see. But...the Pony is definitely the way to go...to keep the series fresh and alive.



Date: 2009-05-29 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] susanb03.livejournal.com
how do they tie that in with the whole Eleven thing???? if he renerates on new years.... craziness


Date: 2009-05-29 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
...I would say he's not going to regenerate at New Years...he's going to go to Rose Tyler. I would say that the Matt Smith regeneration...is a separate event. A future event. Even if we don't switch Doctors...and regeneration happens at New Year...there could easily be a time lag of a century or so.

Like this...Doctor nearly dies...is saved by Ten 2...and Ten goes to Rose. Ten 2 holds down the fort, but ages. At the end of his life...in about 80 years...Ten returns. The trip across dimensions is so difficult it triggers the regeneration to Eleven.

So...we have Ten going to Rose. Ten 2 waving goodbye with Donna and then...an empty star field...we wait...a caption appears "100 Years Later" and suddenly...the TARDIS appears...inside...the Doctor is regenerating...into Eleven. And...END RTD'S RUN!

Fade to black. Return with a splash of color and...

Roll preview of Moffat's Doctor, having adventures.


This scenario...btw...

Date: 2009-05-29 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
...allows us so much franchise potential it is criminal not to do it. The BBC stands to make money coming and going with Ten/Rose in one universe and Eleven/Whomever in the other...and a potential Ten2/Donna series of novels.

We could have a movie series with David Tennant. A television series with Matt Smith and a book series with Ten2 and Donna. We could have domestic oriented Rose/Ten books. We could have books for kids about the Doctor's kids. We could have resales of DVD's as movie viewers were drawn in and wanted to know more about the love story, how it all began. The risky series changes would be cushioned by the happy ending of the previous storylines.

It's a financial bonanza and all it takes is that one courageous step...allowing the Doctor to go to Rose...and live out her lifetime in domestic bliss.


Re: Well...

Date: 2009-05-29 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] susanb03.livejournal.com
I think you should write this and submit it!!!!!! :)

I appreciate the vote of confidence...

Date: 2009-05-29 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
...but I think that whatever RTD is doing at Christmas is done. However, I have toyed with the idea of submitting my film idea. At the very least it gets me a spec script to put out there.


Re: I appreciate the vote of confidence...

Date: 2009-05-29 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] susanb03.livejournal.com
If nothing else, WE'D all read it ;)

Re: Well...

Date: 2009-05-29 07:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com
I think earlgreytea already did! The domestic bit, anyway.

Re: Well...

Date: 2009-05-29 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] susanb03.livejournal.com
If you mean her Chaos Theory et al... that's FANTASTIC

(no subject)

Date: 2009-05-29 05:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wickedgillie.livejournal.com
I caught whiff of the new girl when I was pointed earlier toward confirmed news that David is indeed doing Hamlet for the Beeb. I am sure she'll be just fine, and hopefully the TARDIS won't be full of UST between the two young hotties in the jumpseat.

TOTALLY agree with you regarding what needs to happen to redeem Ten's character degradation and successfully end his/RTD's overall arc. There's a reason Rose keeps coming back like the proverbial bad penny. This. Needs. To. Be. Addressed. RFN. I don't think I'd have any interest whatsoever in a Doctor who hasn't successfully gotten over himself. Yeah, I've loved the angst at times, but this is first and foremost a children's series and I want my frakkin' happy ending, damnit!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-05-30 03:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I have some hope that Moffat will go with his Sally Sparrow or Nancy archtypes of intrepid adventure girls and let the UST be only in our minds. Of course, the easiest way to do this is to have the new girl be a long lost relative of some sort. Jenny's child or Rose/Ten's grandchild or something along those lines. That leads to stern, but impossibly young, grandfather warning her not to get into trouble with boys or aliens. And essentially you double your sexy if both the Doctor and his companion can hit on other people...twice the storylines about heartbreak.

Ten definitely needs his fulfillment. It is like an aching wound at this point and it's totally destroying his character integrity. I opened RTD's book to a random page about Billie possibly not being able to come back for JE and how Mickey might come back...but...RTD points out...and rightly so...that there is no way that Rose wouldn't come back to the Doctor if she could. So, you can't have Mickey there without Rose without trying the patience of the audience and losing your integrity.

And, yet, this is exactly what he does in JE...to THE DOCTOR! There is no flipping way that Ten and Rose end up in that position without some extenuating circumstances. We have to spend a lot of energy making JE work as fans. People have created all sorts of fanfiction to explain it...or they make up things about the characters that simply can't be supported by the canon. Things like Rose got a Doctor she could shag. Or the Doctor was happy to have an excuse to be rid of Rose at last. I mean...please...you don't even have to watch S2 to know that's rubbish...you only have to watch the beginning of Journey's End.


(no subject)

Date: 2009-05-29 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com
Davies fell victim to his old tropes: sexualising the doctor by having him kiss yet another female companion, fetishising him by having Lee Evans as an eccentric boffin kneel at his feet and declare he loved him, and granting him another soliloquy about his cosmic solitariness.

That was The Times (who've always been very pro-Who) on POTD. Nuff said.

Pretty much does sum it up...

Date: 2009-05-29 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
...and follows along with everything I've been saying about what sort of Doctor we are left with after he gives up on that life with Rose. He's lost his hope. And if you ask me...that is the most faithful companion...the one that died.

If only RTD acknowledges that...then we might, yet, have our pony. People look to Moffat to set things right but it really isn't his job. His job, as you noted, will be hard enough without loading him down with all of RTD's unfinished storylines.


(no subject)

Date: 2009-05-29 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shaela
I begin to care less and that’s a good thing.

Yeah, me too. I always knew I wouldn’t care as much about Doctor Who once Rose was gone. That’s one of the reasons I shipped Doctor/Rose. I was hoping that if the Doctor and Rose had a family together, I’d be able to transfer my love for Rose to her daughter or granddaughter.

(In a perfect world, Rose would’ve become a Time Lady, and we would’ve gotten to watch her and the Doctor raising a family on the Tardis. But I wasn’t really expecting that.)

I have always felt that Rose has her place in the canon and that her place is an extraordinary one.

I think the main difference between you and me (and it’s something I’m still trying to come to terms with) is that I was never a fan of Doctor Who. I was a fan of the Rose Tyler Show (what I think [livejournal.com profile] honorh called “cute blonde saves the world, v. some-help-from-an-alien”). I started losing interest when they dropped the Bad Wolf storyline in season two.

But I still think that Rose’s role in the series was more than just “the companion the Doctor fell in love with.” She was the first character we met in “Rose” (and whether you see that as the first episode in a new series or the first episode after a sixteen-year hiatus, it’s still a huge milestone). She’s the viewpoint character for both that episode and most of the first season. Even if her relationship with the Doctor had been strictly platonic, she’d still be important in the same way Ian and Barbara are important.

Still, I think we’re on the same page when it comes to the Tenth Doctor’s character arc and the need for a proper ending. (And I think it would be hysterical if I got my way after all, and the Doctor’s next companion is his granddaughter, despite the fact that they look the same age.)

I think she well could be a granddaughter

Date: 2009-05-29 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabid1st.livejournal.com
I am with you on that being the best possible way to go. Imagine him trying to rein in her sexiness, act as stern guardian when he's so young. And if she was from that alternative universe...she could be a few generations removed...or crossbred with yet another alien race. She could have unexpected powers of her own. Oh, there are so many great possiblities for stories out of that scenario. And in fact that is what I would write in my script version...grandkids.

As for the Rose Tyler Show...I am too old school to buy into that completely. I believe the show can endure beyond Rose. In fact, that is one of the miracles of my Rose-shipping. I came into the new series absolutely convinced that adding a romantic interest for the Doctor was a mistake. And my initial reaction to ROSE was that she couldn't POSSIBLY be the "true love" of such an extraordinary being.

I took some convincing. I wasn't a shipper until Father's Day, and that is about the time I began to really appreciate Rose as well. Suddenly, I saw that the Doctor truly needed her...and why. I saw how vulnerable and brave she was and how she completed him. I loved Nine and Rose, but Ten/Rose won my heart over to a place where I am head-over-heels in love with Rose, too.

I agee with you that she's been our touchstone...and we've lost that without her. Maybe Moffat will reconnect to it. But what we really need is to reawaken the AUDIENCE's sense of wonder...which we could do if we switch Doctors...or send the Doctor to Rose's universe to live that life...because then...when he returns, he will literally be fundamentally changed.



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