Doctor Who...Bad Wolf Theories...again...

[rabid1st]

You all know my theories by now...about Rose and S3...and the love story continuing sans Billie Piper. But I was just sitting here watching the Christmas Invasion when there...in canon...was an unexpected bit of support for my theory that the Wolf lives. Under the cut we go for more

The big question about Bad Wolf Rose is...of course...if she really had control over time and space...why didn't she do something to stop Doomsday? And the answer to that question could well be that she knew Doomsday HAD to happen. Then there is the part of Doomsday where Rose suddenly knows what happened while she was Bad Wolfed up...the standing theory is that the Doctor must have told her...but I've always maintained that her remembering just there...was a sign of something.

Now...in the Christmas Invasion...when Mickey and Rose take the unconscious Doctor into the TARDIS...Mickey asks Rose if she can fly the TARDIS since she did it before.
Mickey: No chance you can fly this thing?
Rose: Not anymore, no.
Mickey: Well you did it before.
Rose: I know. But it's sort of been wiped out of my head. Like it's forbidden or something. Try it again I get the universe ripped in half.

Interesting...because my theory is that's exactly what being Bad Wolf Rose means...ripping the universe in half. Possibly even creating a way into another universe.



Rae
possibly reaching...on this one...but still...how odd is it that she does address why she can't remember...and it's THAT?

Comments

[beadattitude.livejournal.com]

::peers hopefully at you::

:peers back at you:

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

I mean...we just assume that it was the nature of the power to wipe her mind...or that the Doctor did something...but he does ask her what she remembers (still, it could have been him)...but even if it was him...doesn't mean that she isn't harboring the power...only that he'd rather she not know about it because of how deadly it is. And we can't get around her remembering it all...when she needed to remember for the Daleks.

Rae

[larielromeniel.livejournal.com]

Oooh. I like this theory.

Bad Wolf Rose is just too good a concept for it to be used and tossed away casually. (Well, forcing a Time Lord's regeneration isn't exactly casual...but there should have been more fallout.)

Well...they haven't tossed it away...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...have they? They had the option to do so...but they linked it pretty squarely to the beginning of S2 (with the werewolf) and the end of S2 (with Bad Wolf Bay). And Jack is all powered up and regenerating because of it. And really...what are the odds that Jack would then be coming back to Doctor Who for the finale? Or...that HIS show's finale...would deal with opening gates to other universes AND have a Bad Wolf sign in it?

Rae

[miladyhawke.livejournal.com]

Ooo... I like this theory. I just can't believe that they'd entirely drop Bad Wolf altogether. Because the Doctor/Rose story they've been telling still requires a resolution. And they keep reminding of of Bad Wolf time and again, even if it's just in Torchwood. Perhaps they're just dicking us all around with cool references, but they never actually did explore the fallout of Bad Wolf. And it just surpasses belief that Bad Wolf!Rose didn't foresee everything that was going to happen, arrange it according to how things had to go, and then create a loop hole for a happy ending.

Perhaps we fans overthink these things, but some things really do seem like obviously dangling, unresolved plot points. Bad story-telling by anyone's standards.

Re: Well...they haven't tossed it away...

[larielromeniel.livejournal.com]

::nodding:: Just because we haven't yet SEEN everything doesn't mean there won't be more fallout.

There's really too much here not to believe that it all Means Something.

[omega85.livejournal.com]

*waits ever so patiently for our Dear Rose to come back*

Re: Well...they haven't tossed it away...

[aibhinn.livejournal.com]

They linked it into Torchwood, too, in the episode where they go back in time and eventually open the Rift (Ep. "Captain Jack Harkness"). They had the words 'Bad Wolf' graffitied (sp?) in the stairwell.

[aibhinn.livejournal.com]

Well, we do know that RTD *is* capable of bad story-telling and dangling, unresolved plot points (coughGRIDLOCKcough)... but I can't believe they'd keep throwing it at us and never resolve it.

Re: Well...they haven't tossed it away...

[04nbod.livejournal.com]

and the bad wolf poster in the car in gridlock

[04nbod.livejournal.com]

i was looking for the lyrics for song to ten and they seem to support your view of a reunion of some kind. It is contradictory it talks about doomsday

'I'm thinking of you oceans apart
I want you to know

Well I woke up today and your on the other side
Our time will never come again'

however it also says this

'And I started to walk
Pretty soon I will run
And I'll come running back to you

'Cause I followed my star
And that's what you are'

also he calls her his star in both song for ten and love don't roam which ties into 'you burnt like the sun'

also in love don't roam
'So, reel me in, my precious girl,
Come on, take me home.
'Cause my body's tired of travelling
And my heart don't wish to roam.'

all supportive of reunion- does murray gold know RTD's master plan? The seeds for doomsday are in the song, are the seeds for reunion there too?

Also there is a mention here http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/sites/doctorwho/pages/sightings.shtml

'Tom Jennings, Cardiff Bay near the train station
I saw the 'Fatts' vans with David Tennant and Billie Piper which probably means there's going to be a flashback. And I saw them filming The Idiot's Lantern. '

either a really big spoiler or just a visit from billie to the crew at the start of filming

In the comments to this post...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

http://rabid1st.livejournal.com/112504.html#cutid1

I discuss the song a bit. And if you are a member of Oh_she_knows you can find my long reference to it when I am talking about Human Nature.

The thing is...both this song and the other one reference things in S3 that reference Rose.

In the Doctor's journal of impossible things...he talks about Rose walking away. And also it says..."I know her, I know I know her she is my st..." <<--I wondered if that word was STAR. But even if it wasn't...there is a definite theme of following Rose...specificially...she keeps walking away and he follows her.

And as you did a video to Love Don't Roam...you know it mentions again...that she is walking...walk with my love, my love...walk on...because you know my love you are my shining star.<<--there's the star again...and the ship poster...there is the obvious quote of a star to sail her by...

Also, love don't roam asks her to reel him in. And says she "vanished"...in Human Nature he says she "disappears later"...I honestly think he's going home to Rose...because he's going mad here and it's going to be obvious how mad he's going...the only question in my mind is it this season (because the show is going on for a few more years) or next (because they are ending it).

Rae
not even addressing your spoiler because it made me all goosebumpy and while I completely believe...I want to see it for real...not just hear rumors of it.

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

Yes...he definitely left some loopholes in Gridlock...so we can't really say he won't leave them...but on the other hand...Rose leaving the show was a big deal for him...not only did they not know if the show would even fly without Billie...but also...it messed up his story when she left. And, you know, as a writer...you do try to keep the story going even when life hands you an unexpected twist.

Rae

Yeah...that's what I meant

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

About the finale reference...the graffiti. I sort of consider that whole arc part of the finale...though there is also the big old big bad showdown aspect in the finale.

Rae

Let's say...we put the ship image of SS Rose

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...in the mix...and then also add what he puts in his journal...and then we look at Song for Ten and Love Don't Roam.

Love Don't Roam Lyrics
Murray Gold
Well, I've roamed about this Earth

With just a suitcase in my hand,

And I've met some bog-eyed Joe's,

I've met the blessed, I've met the damned.

But of all the strange, strange creatures

In the air, at sea, on land,

Oh, my girl, my girl, my precious girl,

I love you, you understand. -- I think it is pretty clear to everyone but the ship-blind that the Doctor loved Rose.



So, reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home.

'Cause my body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam. No, no.



I have wandered, I have rambled

I have crossed this crowded sphere,

And I've seen a mass of problems

That I long to disappear. -- he certainly has done all that

Now, all I have's this anguished heart,

For you have vanished too. -- From his perspective that is exactly what happened to Rose...she disappeared...and he says this about her in Human Nature.

Oh, my girl, my girl, my precious girl,

Just what is this man to do?



So, reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home. -- Notice the belief in her...the same sort of belief he showed in the Satan Pit. And it was possibly addressed again in Evolution of the Daleks when Martha says, "There's someone for everyone." He looks toward the horizon and says, "Maybe."

'Cause my body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam.



Yeah, reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home.

'Cause my body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam. No, no.



Well, you took me in, you stole my heart,

I cannot roam no more.

Because love, it stays within you,

It does not wash up on a shore. -- When last we saw Rose she was standing on a shore...and again...the idea of the ship is referenced.

But a fighting man forgets each cut

Each knock, each bruise, each fall,

But a fighting man cannot forget

Why his love don't roam no more.



Oh, reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home.

'Cause my body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam.



Yeah, reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home.

'Cause my body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam.



Yeah, walk with me, my love, my love,

Walk tall, walk proud, walk far,

For you know my love, you are, you are,

You are my shining star.



Walk with me, oh my love,

Walk tall, walk proud, walk far.

For you know my love, you are, you are,

You are my shining star, you are, you are.

Yeah! -- There's the star reference...which fits Rose...and the idea of being guided home...there's the reference to her walking...as addressed in the journal...when all other companions are addressed as "up the chimney and away" and "left behind."



Reel me in, my precious girl,

Come on, take me home.

My body's tired of travelling

And my heart don't wish to roam. -- This is very true and clear image. He is tired of traveling and wants to go home to her.


SONG FOR TEN

Well I woke up today
And the world seemed a restless place
It could have been that way for me

And I wandered around
And I thought of your face
That Christmas looking back at me -- To our knowledge the only Christmas he ever celebrated was with Rose.

I wish today was just like every other day
'Cause today has been the best day
Everything I ever dreamed -- A reference to dreams...could be a stretch to "girl in my dreams" in the journal of Impossible things.

And I started to walk
Pretty soon I will run
And I'll be running back to you -- AS YOU SAID...this would relate directly to the journal...and to the idea of a reunion.

'Cause I followed my star -- possibly the journal...definitely the ship poster...and the Werewolf saying Rose "burns like the sun."

And that's what you are -- His star is where she is.
I've had a merry time with you

Re: Let's say...we put the ship image of SS Rose

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Just my 2c.....RTD let slip that the finale has a nautical theme (DWM

I'm wondering how the heck they will link Utopia to TW, End of Days. They may not even try, but I find it completely inconceivable that the Doctor would be unaware of the Rift opening and the whole Jack-fighting-Abbadon thing. So I'm quite intrigued by that.

The SS Rose is nautical...

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

...as is a ship called The Valient (child)...but more than that...is the idea of Ten sailing away to his love on her distant shore. Because that is what the song says...and you know...given the realities of Doctor Who going on...I will definitely take him going to her for a few decades...and I think he would take it, too.

One of the things I've noticed about this season is that it has slapped down every single objection to the Doctor and Rose having a bit of normal life together. The idea that he might not be able to stand a little down time because he just loves what he does so much. The idea that he might not want her because she's not perfect for him at all. The idea that marriage...or family is just too alien to him. The idea that he can't love. His life is chaos...as he says in Blink...at the end...and really...it's sort of like a job.

What the heck is wrong with him having a home life as well? I just don't understand why people think that he wouldn't come back to our universe or...wouldn't want to go to Rose...I think it is pretty self evident...our universe needs him...he's got an important job as last of the time lords...but he needs Rose to be sane and healthy. And Rose...has to stay safe, too...she can't be in the line of fire like Martha. Even if she would gladly be in the line of fire with him...it is probably better for him if he has someone with him he can ignore when circumstances call for it.

Rae

Re: The SS Rose is nautical...

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Yes - one thing S3 has really brought out is the down-side of being the Doctor's consort. I actually feel quite sorry for Martha at times. She loves, but it doesn't conquer all. It's not just about the man, it's about the life. She didn't look all that happy when she was trailing behind him with the arrows; she looked like she wanted him to stop chatting and get the job done, so they could go home.

Right...it has completely established

[rabid1st.livejournal.com]

That there is no romance no matter how much the companion wants it. However, at the same time it has established that the Doctor is craving something LIKE a normal life...and it has also established who it is he craves. People can deny it all they like but the picture in the journal is about Rose and Rose alone and she is described as walking away from HIM. She is the one he is pursuing. And btw, in Blink...did you notice that Kathy's eventual husband was following her? She's walking away and says, "Are you going to just keep following me?"

I follow my star.

Okay...I do think that from now on...when I get obsessed about any detail in canon and try to make something out of it I am going to have to say, "'The Angels have the Police Box.' I have that on a t-shirt." Because nothing so accurately describes internet-fans focusing on details without seeing the big picture as that.

Rae